Leah Hadley [00:00:01]:
Welcome to Intentional Divorce Insights. I'm Leah Hadley, certified divorce financial analyst, accredited financial counselor, and the founder of Intentional Divorce Solutions. I'll be your guide through the complexities of divorce, finance, and emotional wellness. Join me as we uncover practical tips and empowering insights to help you navigate your divorce with clarity and intention.
Liesel Darby [00:00:25]:
Welcome back to intentional divorce insights. I am so happy that you are here, and I am joined by our wonderful guest, Liesl Darby, who's joined me several times before. Welcome back Liesel.
Liesel Darby [00:00:43]:
Hi. Thanks for having me today.
Liesel Darby [00:00:45]:
It's my pleasure. You just recently completed a new certification in divorce coaching, And I'm really looking forward to having a conversation about what that is and how that helps you support clients.
Liesel Darby [00:00:58]:
I was so happy to talk about this. I I am so happy that I've I got this certification. This just happened really recently, and it's something I've been working on for the last 6 months. So it's a it's a real deal thing. It's not something you just paid for, and they they give you a piece of paper. This this had some teeth to it. It was a robust program, and you actually had to submit a 45 minute, video of a coaching session. And it was reviewed by 2 other people, and not everybody passes.
Liesel Darby [00:01:30]:
So I was very happy that I was one that did, and I'm so, I I'm just it's a good thing to talk about this so people know.
Liesel Darby [00:01:39]:
Perfect. So tell us, what is that certification?
Liesel Darby [00:01:41]:
It is I am an a certified alternative dispute resolution divorce coach. So what that means because, you know, I I have a life coaching certification too. I have a therapy background, and I'm divorced. You know, I had packaged myself as a divorce coach before, and had done divorce coaching, but I was drawn to the, the alternative dispute resolution, structure and and their certification because it really hones in on divorce. It is a structured process, and the emphasis really is on, like, conflict management. How do you minimize? You can't get rid of conflict. You know? It's it's gonna be there, especially when we're talking about divorce. You're still gonna have conflict there.
Liesel Darby [00:02:36]:
But this really emphasizes ways to deal with that and to minimize it, so that you can move forward in the best way possible. You know, it teaches you how to make, to to look at yourself when you were this is individual coaching I'm talking about. So, you know, clients are, you know, we we focus on how do you always move forward in each session so each session has value. You know, this isn't just a coffee chat with a friend. Right? This is let's really focus on what you need to focus on, and it's all about what's going on in their life with with the divorce. And it can be at the beginning, it can be, you know, it can be precontemplative, it can be in the middle of it, after it can be even after the final decree is done. As long as they're having to deal with anything related to their divorce, and it is part of their life, you know, it's it the divorce itself is an event. It's also a process.
Liesel Darby [00:03:35]:
The day you get divorced is the event, but there's also the process before, during, and after. So if you are especially if you're co parenting, you still have to have interactions with this person, and they're still part of your life as long as you have your kids. So we we really focus on how how do I support that, how do I help them to move through that, How do I help them to, get the resources that they need? How do we, figure out what their values are so that they're making these big life decisions when they're the most emotionally stressed out?
Liesel Darby [00:04:11]:
Right.
Liesel Darby [00:04:12]:
How do you make them so that you're you're not coming from that emotional place? You're coming from a a place where you are making decisions aligned with your values. So it's it's not, it's not just a shallow thing that we're undertaking. It's it's a really rich process that is transformative. Fantastic.
Liesel Darby [00:04:35]:
Now I know some people are not familiar with the term alternative dispute resolution or ADR. How is that different from other traditional divorce proceedings?
Liesel Darby [00:04:45]:
Okay. So usually when people think about divorce, they're thinking about I got a lawyer up. The other person's got a lawyer. We're gonna duke this out in court. It's not a fun process. Usually, there's people are, like, digging in. They're not get you know, it's like my way or the highway. I'm not giving this up.
Liesel Darby [00:05:05]:
I am not doing this, and they sometimes want they think that this process can punish the other person. Right? That's not what that's not what a justice system is for divorce is designed to do. It's about legally splitting assets and liabilities and taking care of you know, making a plan of who's gonna parent the kids how and all this other stuff. So, so, anyways, so, usually, when people think about divorce, it's about I gotta get a lawyer. We're gonna fight this out in court. It's probably gonna be really expensive. It's probably gonna be very emotionally draining, and they don't have a lot of control over what a judge says. Right? So when you're talking about alternative divorce ways to do this, how how do you resolve this this dispute? We're talking more about ways like mediation is the one that comes to my mind.
Liesel Darby [00:06:04]:
And I you know, I'm a mediator, so I'm pretty familiar with how this works. Mediation is really about facilitating conversations between the spouses so that they can make agreements that they can both live with and, keeping the kids' best interest front and center. Really, it it also models for them how to resolve conflict because they might have that once they're out of a, you know, past their divorce process. Conflict comes up all the time with lots of different kinds of people. And it also can really set a tone for a much more amicable co parenting relationship. So that's those are the things that I see. And, again, it's about we're not gonna fight about this, dig in our heels is that how can we look at these issues in a way that, you know, takes some negotiations, it might take some compromise. You're probably not gonna be thrilled with a 100% of everything because that is just not real world, but you can make, your divorce agreements such that you can live with them.
Liesel Darby [00:07:16]:
And as we all know, if you are the ones that are making your agreements, you're much more likely to to follow through with that, which means less time having to drag somebody back to court. That's less money, less aggravation. It really sets the stage that you can you can get divorced and go on your separate ways with the least amount of, bad feelings, I guess, is a good way to put it.
Liesel Darby [00:07:43]:
Yeah. That's a great way to put it. What are the key benefits of using an ADR divorce coach?
Liesel Darby [00:07:47]:
Okay. So one thing I wanna really stress is it's very counterintuitive, but using a divorce coach can actually save you money in your divorce. And I know a lot of people are like, but it's another service I have to pay for. You know, my my finances are already All the money is going to the lawyers now. You know, I'm I don't have a lot of extra cash. I don't wanna add somebody else into the mix. But, again, what I really wanna stress is it can save you money in your overall divorce. Because one of the things a lot of people do is they wanna call up their lawyer, and they want to cry and whine and complain about things.
Liesel Darby [00:08:31]:
Lawyers cost a lot more money than a divorce coach does, And lawyers are not trained to help you move through your emotions or do any kind of thing. Lawyers wanna do their legal stuff. That's what they're paying. You're paying them the big boxes because they have expertise in how does this whole divorce process work and what, you know, what has to happen with all these things. So actually, by having, a divorce coach working with you, that's where you process those big emotions. That's where you can figure out strategies on how to approach, you know, when you wanna make a, you know, make a proposition to to your other person. That's where you can learn effective communication skills to make it more likely that you can work with your spouse and not be, you know, just butting heads. This is where you can get support.
Liesel Darby [00:09:27]:
Everybody needs support when they go through a divorce. So having a coach in your corner is really helpful just to know somebody's there to, to cheer you on and to point out that you are making progress. And, also, one of the things is to help you identify when you have obstacles that are getting in your way and as well as strategize ways to overcome those obstacles so that you can get what you want. At the end of the day, you wanna be able to go on your own new chapter, and start fresh and get through this divorce process as quickly as you can for the least amount of money. So having a divorce coach allows you to do that, and people need to recognize that there's a lot of value in that.
Liesel Darby [00:10:15]:
Absolutely. Could you give a recent example of how the ADRDC approach has helped a client?
Liesel Darby [00:10:23]:
Yeah. So this one's a little bit different, just because I've recently started to do this. Right? But, I did help a a lady who she's she's been in the divorce process for over 3 years and is still not done, mainly because her her spouse is kinda dragging his feet. And she's when she hired me to work with her, she was just she was having a lot of really big feelings still, just overwhelming. She had had some other losses in her life during this time. Her mom had died. One of her pets had died. I mean, she was just doing with dealing with a lot of things, and she had just become really stuck as far as what she needed to do in order to help move this forward as well as to feel better about what was going on in her life.
Liesel Darby [00:11:13]:
And because each of these sessions is very structured and it's about moving forward and it's about getting results, she was able to, you know, identify, even if it was just for that day, what she needed to do and what she could do to move towards whatever goals that she had set. So at the end of, you know, 4 sessions or so, she felt a lot better. She had made a lot of progress in what she could control. She couldn't control her ex. Right? Can't control anybody else, but she recognized the things that she could do, even to kinda cut off his, you know, anticipated reactions or, you know, things he he might say to her that that she could know that in advance this is how he usually reacts, and we strategize ways to mitigate that so that that didn't happen. So at the end of it, she she felt a lot better. She was able more in control of her emotions. That's another thing we do is we teach how to regulate your emotions so that you're not being triggered when you're making these big life decisions, and you can get out of your amygdala, right, which is where your fight or flight comes into and back into your your frontal cortex where you're able to make logical decisions.
Liesel Darby [00:12:30]:
That's a very real thing for people who are going through, when they're very upset about this whole thing is they're not making decisions from a logical place in their brain. And so we teach them how to get out of that place and back into the place in their brain where they can make really good solid decisions because they're making big life decisions that have big impacts.
Liesel Darby [00:12:52]:
Now one of the things I heard you say, Liesel, was that you had met with this woman for 4 sessions, yet she experienced this whole transformation just over 4 weeks. That's amazing.
Liesel Darby [00:13:03]:
Yeah. It really is. This is this whole thing is designed to move forward, and it is transformational. It's not just, because I know some people think, oh, it's it's a coach. I'm just gonna go see her. She's gonna tell me what to do. Right? She's gonna tell me exactly what I need to do, and that's not really what coaching is. Coaching is about spending the time to to process things, but, also, I'm not gonna tell you what you need to do.
Liesel Darby [00:13:30]:
I'm gonna help you you figure out what you need to do through just some we call them powerful questions, right, that help you go inward. Coaching really believes that you have the answers that you need. You don't have to I mean, I know I'm not talking about your lawyer's advice or, you know, financial advice like what you would give, not those kinds of things. You you do need an expert for those things, and I make very clear for that. I'm not an attorney. I'm not getting any kinds of legal advice ever, but we can maybe streamline some questions for you to go and ask your attorney so that the time that you do spend with your attorney is is, you know, you're not wasting time. You're not which means you're not wasting money. Right? So that's one of the things we can do too is really just kinda bounce things around and say, okay.
Liesel Darby [00:14:20]:
What are the questions? What are the things you need answers to? What are ways you can ask your attorneys so that they are more likely to give you the answer that you need? So then you can make these decisions. So I'm a partner with them to help them figure out what do they need to do. And it's very empowering for them because I know when I went through my divorce, I felt very disempowered at times because I was so overwhelmed with things. There was a lot of fear, and we just say that fear is unanswered questions. K? So if you have the answer to your question, you can then figure out how you wanna deal with it. So we we confront fears. We figure out what those are. We figure out what's what's really going on with that, and then we figure out how can I get the answer to that question so that then I can move on to the next thing I need to do? So it is very it's very transformative.
Liesel Darby [00:15:10]:
Like I said, this is not just a skim the surface type thing. This is not just okay. Ask me a question. I'll give you an answer. This isn't teaching them how to communicate effectively. I'm teaching them how to manage conflict and not just here, but that goes into all other areas of their life. You know, really to look inwards to see what your strengths are, to figure out if there's something that you need to kinda shore up with. But people come out of of coaching feeling more empowered.
Liesel Darby [00:15:45]:
And you're talking a little bit about kinda what coaching is and what it's not. I know you're also a certified life coach. You mentioned that. How does that differ from an ADR divorce coach?
Liesel Darby [00:15:56]:
Mainly on focus and techniques. So that's that's a big broad answer. When I was doing life coaching, it's still you're still using powerful questions, and you're still you know, the whole thing is the client has the answers within them. But the ADR process really is focused on managing conflict. It's so I think it's more of a focus thing. And, again, each session is designed to move the client forward into whatever towards whatever goals that they think are most important at that time. Yeah. So, you know, they're they're similar, but they're not.
Liesel Darby [00:16:38]:
And, actually, ADR is, more aligned with the legal community, legal things, and collaborative divorce, then, like, I the the International Coach Federation life coaching path. Those are they're 2 different things. This is more legal centered, but it's, again, how to mitigate conflict so that they can figure out how to move through this divorce process with the least amount of damage to them and to their kids, you know, to the family as well. It's it always has to do with putting your kids first front and center and making decisions that are based on their best interest as they go through the divorce process.
Liesel Darby [00:17:19]:
Okay. In your opinion, how is the landscape of divorce resolution changing, and what role does ADR play in that evolution?
Liesel Darby [00:17:29]:
I really think that people are gonna be moving away from litigated divorces where you, you know, if you're duking it out and you go before a judge and they're making their decisions. I think as people understand that there are other processes and other ways to dissolve a marriage, I don't know why they wouldn't go for that. I mean, well, there's there's certain situations where it might not work quite as well, but you can always try mediation, first. Again, that's you have a lot more control over making agreements that are gonna work for you and your family and and that you're gonna be satisfied with versus, you know, going to court and letting a judge decide anything. And it's a lot less expensive too. I mean, I've heard of people spending 100 of 1,000 on divorce, and they're still not done. They're still not done, and there's and it's because of conflict. The thing that makes divorce, expensive is the amount of conflict.
Liesel Darby [00:18:32]:
And sometimes you have people who they delight in that or they want to make your life miserable or they're just really digging in, and I'm not giving in on this. I don't care. That's what makes it expensive. So if you can find an another way to dissolve your marriage where you can talk with your spouse, you can make proposals that are things you'd like. And, you know, and if if even if they agreed a part of that, that's better than having to go to court and and they just split. Because court's gonna do what the law says. Right? Court is about legally, how do we separate this? Mediation is about what works for your family. So you can make other agreements that a court might not even think about.
Liesel Darby [00:19:23]:
And as long as it's, you know, equitable looking, the court will sign off on that. And usually much faster, much quicker, much less expensive, and you'll be more probably much more satisfied too. I always say, you know, if you go to court, you have, like, 5 colors in your cram box, like black, white, gray, tan, and peach. All the boring colors. You have a whole box of 64 crayons to work with in mediation because you can make agreements that are totally what you and your spouse can agree with, and it doesn't have to be what a court would say. So, anyway, I think that it I think it will move more towards that end. The more that people understand that it's not just I have to lawyer up, then we're gonna duke it out in court. And then how, divorce coaching, ADR divorce coaching plays into that is that it's so aligned with that process.
Liesel Darby [00:20:18]:
It's so aligned with, you know, let's cut out as much conflict as possible. And conflict isn't even bad. It's not a bad thing. It just means you have a different opinion or a different view than somebody else. So as long as you can talk about that, not attack each other, and not dig in, you know, and say, this is my way or the highway, and you can listen to what somebody else might propose and get to the why. You know, we talk about that sometimes. It's okay. Somebody comes to divorces' comments as I'm keeping the house no matter what.
Liesel Darby [00:20:53]:
And nothing they don't wanna budge off that, but if you can talk about why is that? What what does that mean to you? You can get something a little bit deeper like, well, it actually stands for security for me and my kids. And then you can say, okay. So in case you can't afford to keep the house or the, you know, that's not what the other person wants. What are some other ways that you can get security and, you know, that that feeling for you and your kids? What are some other ways? So it really opens up that whole arena. And I think once people realize that there are other ways to get what you want, to get your needs met, than just duking it out and be in real positional like that. I think people would are going to really just go that way first, especially saves saves ton of money, saves time, and you can come up with a better solution for yourself than a court's gonna do.
Liesel Darby [00:21:54]:
Well, this has been fantastic, Lisa. Congratulations on your new designation. I think you're gonna be able to support people even more than you could before, which is awesome. We're gonna include a link below to Liezl's calendar. So if you wanna learn more about ADR divorce coaching and have a conversation with Liezl, you can click on that link and get on her calendar, schedule just a free chat to talk about kinda what she does and how she supports people. And again, thank you so much for your time, Liesel.
Liesel Darby [00:22:23]:
Oh, thanks so much, and thank you. Bye.
Liesel Darby [00:22:26]:
We'll see you next week on intentional divorce insights.
Leah Hadley [00:22:29]:
Thank you for joining me on intentional divorce insights. It's a privilege to share this time with you. I hope each episode offers valuable guidance to navigate your journey. If you find our content helpful, please leave a review to help others discover the benefits of intentional decision making in divorce. Until next time, take care and continue to embrace your path with intention.