Leah Hadley [00:00:01]:
Welcome to Intentional Divorce Insights. I'm Leah Hadley, Certified Divorce Financial Analyst, Accredited Financial Counselor, and the founder of Intentional Divorce Solutions. I'll be your guide through the complexities of divorce, finance, and emotional wellness. Join me as we uncover practical tips and empowering insights to help you navigate your divorce with clarity and intention.
Leah Hadley [00:00:24]:
Hi there, and welcome back to Intentional Divorce Insights. I'm so happy that you are here with us today. We have a fabulous guest, and I am really excited about this conversation because we're talking about some very important things here today. This is Nikoo Berenji, and she is a family law attorney, an educator, and an advocate who helps individuals navigate divorce and custody matters with clarity, with confidence, and with a focus on long-term outcomes. As managing attorney of Berenji and Associates, she works with clients facing a wide range of family law issues. From amicable resolutions to complex, high-conflict disputes. In addition to her legal practice, excuse me, she teaches legal studies and paralegal courses at the college level, where she is passionate about mentoring the next generation of legal professionals. She's known for her practical, client-centered approach and her ability to break down complicated legal concepts into clear, actionable guidance.
Leah Hadley [00:01:23]:
And I know you all need that for sure. Nikoo is particularly interested in helping people make thoughtful, informed decisions during emotionally challenging transitions and believes that understanding the legal process empowers clients to advocate effectively for themselves and their families. And of course, that is what we want here, right? Outside of her legal work, she is active in her community and enjoys volunteering, mentoring students, and raising 2 daughters with her husband, fellow family law attorney. Is it Hossein?
Leah Hadley [00:01:53]:
Yes.
Leah Hadley [00:01:54]:
Hossein Berenji. And I told, I told Nikoo as soon as we started, and I had seen that she works with her husband, I was like, I'm gonna have to ask you about that because it is very unusual to see a husband and wife working in family law together. So I just have to ask, how's that going? What's that like working with your husband?
Nikoo Beremji [00:02:13]:
Um, you know, like running any business together as a couple, it can be— it definitely has, um, I think the biggest challenge is separating work from home life. So like learning to turn the switch off when we go home and we're with our kids, and that can definitely be challenging. We certainly, I don't think, are in a position to teach anybody else how to do that because it's something that we are on a daily basis struggling with ourselves. But, but it, it, you know, the nice thing about it is that we are definitely on the same page in terms of how important we think family is. And so it's nice to be working with somebody in a practice like this where we are focused on helping people kind of preserve their relationships with their children and kind of maintain the family as nicely as they can. It's nice to be working with somebody where, you know, they, they value it as, as much as you do. So it definitely has its pros and its cons. Sometimes it's nice that, you know, you're working with your co-counsel and you have access to them in the middle of the night when you have a great idea.
Nikoo Beremji [00:03:08]:
Sometimes that can be a— it can be a problem, right?
Leah Hadley [00:03:12]:
Yeah, no, I could see that.
Leah Hadley [00:03:13]:
Absolutely.
Leah Hadley [00:03:14]:
And I mean, you're doing work in such an emotional space, right? That same thing, right? Plus and minus. You have the wonderful support of one another, but also you're together in it, right? And so not having that extra space or extra sounding board can be challenging as well. So I think that's phenomenal that you guys are able to find a way to work together and to really help families in this way. I just think that's wonderful.
Leah Hadley [00:03:41]:
Thank you.
Nikoo Beremji [00:03:41]:
We do try to, you know, and we do, I think one of the things that helps is we, we learned early on that it's definitely helpful to separate out our tasks. So we try to, as much as possible, not have things where we are, you know, too many cooks in the kitchen, like both working on the same thing. So we try to refrain from being in a situation where we are— one of us is overseeing the other or we're even working too closely together on a case. And that has definitely helped maintain the peace.
Leah Hadley [00:04:07]:
Good, good.
Nikoo Beremji [00:04:08]:
Yeah.
Leah Hadley [00:04:09]:
Well, one of the things that I read in your bio was you really focus on not just the here and the now and in the moment and in the conflict, But let's look at long-term outcomes, right? Like, let's not just look at the discomfort of now, but really look at the financial planning process through the divorce lens, right? And make financial decisions that are not just, again, comfortable today, but long-term considerations. Same thing with parenting decisions, right? What's not just comfortable in the moment, but how do we think about long-term outcomes? And so I'm curious, and I'm sure you have some examples of things that clients just fight fiercely over during divorce that actually often matter a lot less when we're talking about 5 years down the road?
Nikoo Beremji [00:04:54]:
Yeah, for sure. I mean, one of the biggest things I think that we are constantly finding ourselves reminding our clients is it's— if there was one thing where I'd say people spend a ton of time and money fighting over it that doesn't matter as much down the line, it's proving a point. And this can be— that point could be very different things in different cases. But it's just the fight for the sake of the fight or for the principal's sake. I mean, one recent case that comes to mind is we had a couple that was— that fought over literally 1% of custody. And it was our— we represented a dad who it was really important to him for the sake of the principal to have 50/50 custody. And mom was willing to do 51/49 because she also wanted to, in principle, be just a little bit more than him.
Leah Hadley [00:05:47]:
Right.
Nikoo Beremji [00:05:47]:
And so this, I mean, the amount of money and the amount of time that got spent on just this little one point, and I understand both perspectives, right? Dad's perspective was, I want my kids to know that I was willing to do whatever I could and I was willing to pay any amount of money and fight so I could be that equal-time parent. And in a case like this, it was a little bit, and he, it wouldn't be equal anyways. Without getting into the details of it, that's just one example of how sometimes over the sake of principle things can get— and, you know, that's not really going to matter 5 years from now. We try to really tell our clients, like, when you are trying to decide what you want to fight over right now, what you want to spend your money litigating on right now, try to focus on, like, is this going to get me closer to where I want to be 5 years from now? Not is this going to help me win today? Or is, you know, what, what's going to help you build the life that you want to have after divorce. So the most important things we try to kind of get them to focus on are like, is this going to help you preserve your relationship with your children down the line? Is this going to help you preserve your financial future? You know, so we see unfortunately so often, a lot of times this— we see this with clients on the other end that their attorneys just egg them on and they keep that fight going. And they— it becomes very clear that by the time the process is over, there's going to be nothing left. because the money are going to go to the— and sometimes it's out of our client's control. If the other side wants to litigate like this, there's, you know, they're going to have to unfortunately kind of— you have to respond.
Nikoo Beremji [00:07:14]:
But I— if there was one thing I wish all lawyers kind of agreed on was how to have that forward-thinking approach with their clients and to get them really to think, you know, what's gonna— what's gonna be the— what's gonna provide us the most stability and the most, um, financial security are the the best family, the best relationships with our kids down the line, not now.
Leah Hadley [00:07:35]:
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I used to do a ton of mediations, um, years ago, and I know one of the things that we always focused on when we started talking through the parenting plan is not just what is the relationship that you want to have with your children, but what kind of relationship do you want them to have with that other parent as well, right? And when you sit there and you take a step back, and we're not talking about the divorce and we're not talking about visitation or custody or anything like that, we're talking about, let's just take a step back and be real. Like, you want your, your kids to feel whole and complete. And so you want them to have a positive, solid relationship, assuming that other parent is in a space that they're able to be a present parent, right? Um, but I can see absolutely where people can get stuck on that great example that you provided, Nico, of that 1%, right?
Nikoo Beremji [00:08:26]:
Yeah, no, absolutely. It's, it's, um, and the point you bring up is a great one. Like, it's not just the cut, how much time you want them to have with the other party, or it's like, kind of relationship do you want them to have with the other party? And sometimes there's things that I see this more actually with, with friends, like on a personal level, than I do in my practice. Because, you know, with our clients, we, we are talking through the legal issues with them.
Leah Hadley [00:08:46]:
Sure.
Nikoo Beremji [00:08:47]:
But once we're done, I don't see what's, what's going on, like at the home, you know. But I have many friends who, um, have gone through the process. My, um, my parents went through the process, you know. Hussein's parents went through the process. So, um, and one thing that I see a lot of is the, the talking about the other side or they're talking about the divorce process in front of the children, it really shapes their perception of the other side in a way that's going to impact that relationship in the future. So I think being cognizant of that and kind of being aware of like, is, is everything that I'm saying right now in front of my child going to help them have a positive relationship with this other person in the future? I think that's a very important thing that I wish more people would think about. Absolutely.
Leah Hadley [00:09:30]:
And, you know, so many people get stuck in this— I'm gonna call it a story. You may have been wronged, do not get me wrong. Like, there absolutely are times when somebody is wronged. But sometimes people kind of get trapped in that mindset of like, I was wronged, right? And that they want to prove it through the divorce process. How can that focus sometimes work against them in the process?
Nikoo Beremji [00:09:52]:
Oh my God, so many ways, really, because the job of the courts really is not to think, not to decide, you know, who was wronged. The job of the court, it's forward-facing. It's what's going to be in the best interest of the children? How do we separate out, you know, finances according to the law, not according to who was wronged or who was nicer or who was, you know, meaner? And so I think, but it's very hard. It's hard to, you know, people want validation, they want acknowledgement. I think especially if you have been that person who's been wronged, you know, throughout the marriage, you— I totally understand that need to want somebody to say, you are right, you got screwed over. Um, it's a— I, I totally get that, but I think if you become too focused on that, you, um, it can completely derail a legal strategy. So we try to tell clients that, you know, there's 2 different goals you can work toward. One is being understood and being told that you're right and getting that validation.
Nikoo Beremji [00:10:44]:
The other goal is getting the best legal outcome. And it's better to focus on getting the best legal outcome, um, because the reality also is like, if you are going to get— I think a lot of times what people really want is the val— I mean It's nice to have the validation from the courts and from third parties, but a lot of times I feel like it's still trying to prove it to the other side. And if the other side was gonna give you the validation that you needed, you probably wouldn't be in this situation in the first place, you know?
Leah Hadley [00:11:08]:
Right, absolutely.
Nikoo Beremji [00:11:10]:
So it's not gonna come through you trying to prove it in the court system. It's just gonna be more expensive and it's just gonna prolong the process. But it's, I totally understand that instinct to want that.
Leah Hadley [00:11:21]:
Sure.
Leah Hadley [00:11:22]:
So what are some common myths that people believe about divorce that can lead to some poor decision-making?
Nikoo Beremji [00:11:29]:
I mean, one of them is what, what, what we just discussed, that if you were the, you know, if you were the better behaved spouse during the marriage, that the court's going to favor you and that the court's going to punish the other side if you can only prove how nasty your spouse was. And that's something that leads people to make poor decisions in the sense that they pursue strategies in court that are not helpful in court. So, you know, they become hyper-focused on proving, for example, Um, what, what this— what they— I had one case that just comes to mind. Um, she, we— she really wanted us to make a big deal in court about how there had been one health incident with the child and he had been traveling, and when he found out, he did not drop everything and come back, um, come back to LA to be there. And this had happened years ago, and it had really left a very deep mark on this— on our client. And she thought that that was just gonna— it was so important to her that the court know this, and she wanted to get witnesses and records and all kinds of things to kind of prove the medical records for the child's injury to prove how bad. And it was— that was not going to be, you know, it's taking time and energy away from proving things that really could help her legal case going forward. So that's the one myth I think that people get really stuck on.
Nikoo Beremji [00:12:42]:
Another one is I think there's this perception, and this is partly Hollywood, this is partly all the movies and TV shows we see about divorce, there's this perception that whoever fights the hardest and is the most aggressive That's who's going to win in court. And really, in family law, it's not— it's not like a, you know, like a criminal trial where there is a win or a loss or you are guilty or not guilty.
Nikoo Beremji [00:13:01]:
it's such a long process. There are so many little mini trials along the way. You know, you have dates where the court's deciding things about this property, then there's these assets, then there's time with the kids. Then that can change once the kids get older and their needs change. So there's not a single win you are fighting toward. And I don't— and aggressiveness and just being the loudest isn't isn't necessarily what's going to make one side do better in court. I think it's more who is strategic, who knows when not to be too aggressive and fight. You know, you always— obviously we want to advocate for our clients and we do everything that we can in our power for them, but that doesn't necessarily mean being the loudest or being the nastiest or filing the most motions.
Nikoo Beremji [00:13:42]:
So, um, the— and I think if I had, if I had to say there, you know, what would be one other kind of misconception, it would be That, that everything needs to be decided as soon as possible. Um, so I think sometimes—
Leah Hadley [00:13:56]:
I think that's a hard one for people because so many people are in this space of just ambiguity and honestly for sometimes for years. And so that can feel really tough to even feel like you can make commitments or make decisions or move on with your life. Right. I totally get where it comes from, but yeah, it's, it's hard because you do kind of have to have a little bit of patience with the process.
Nikoo Beremji [00:14:16]:
And I think that patience allows for, like, you to gather more information. It allows your emotions to settle a little bit. You can make better decisions. So I think that being willing to give things a little time can be very helpful. Another one is, I think, sometimes oversharing with the children. That can be— I think there's a perception that I'm a big believer in, you know, like, not dumbing things down for kids. And And, you know, keeping them involved, keeping them informed in most things. But I think that there are, you know, I think when it comes to like the conflicts between the adults, there is a value in keeping the kids from that and protected.
Nikoo Beremji [00:14:56]:
So I don't think it's necessarily the best thing for the kids to know every single thing that's going on. There are some things that I think they're better— and I say that as somebody whose parents went through a divorce and kind of wish I didn't know as much as I did, you know? And I wasn't even little. So I think it, Um, yeah, that, that'd be another one.
Leah Hadley [00:15:15]:
Yeah, I think that's important to remember, just that if you do want your kids to have a solid relationship with both you and their other parent, that you have to have some level of respect, right, for the situation and acknowledging what's reasonable to share and what, just as an adult, you're going to be mindful and protective of in order to maintain those relationships that are important to you, right?
Leah Hadley [00:15:40]:
Yeah.
Leah Hadley [00:15:41]:
So one of the things that you were talking about earlier was a little bit about how people interact with their attorneys and how different attorneys interact differently with the courts and with their clients. You walk through— I know a lot of people just really struggle with how do I even figure out who the right attorney is for me? What would you tell those people who have that question?
Nikoo Beremji [00:16:03]:
I mean, I think one, you know, one Red flag to me is if you are consulting with an attorney and they tell you right off the bat what they would do in your case. There are attorneys out there who have like a cookie-cutter approach. They kind of file the same motions in every single case. They have the same strategy in every single case. And to me, that's a big red flag because people have different priorities. I mean, we have some clients who come to us and tell us like, I actually am okay with not seeing my children a lot. And for me, money is the more important thing. I want to walk away with this, with this much.
Nikoo Beremji [00:16:30]:
And they're very straightforward about that. And, you know, that's kind of We have clients like that. We have some clients who tell us, I actually want to walk away from everything. I don't care. I don't want to have to deal with this person anymore. The most important goal for me is closure as fast as possible. Sometimes clients say, you know, it's my time with my kids is the most important thing. I'm willing to compromise on everything else.
Nikoo Beremji [00:16:48]:
And so you can't have the same strategy for— I mean, so if a lawyer is not right off the bat kind of asking you, okay, what is most important for you? What are your priorities right now? You know, and trying to get a sense of what matters to you, or when you're trying to express that, they're not trying to really hear you. I think that's a— that's one of the biggest red flags. So you want somebody who kind of, you know, is known for or seems like they will value your own values and, you know, they're going to care about what's important to you. They seem like they are willing to have a customized approach depending on what the client's needs are and what they want. That's one thing that I would what I would say. I think another thing is, you know, if— and this is true of any area of law, not— I, in a past life, I did criminal and I did corporate law. And so in any area of law, I think if you, if you have a lawyer who's promising you a certain outcome from the very beginning, that's a big red flag. Um, because you just can't.
Nikoo Beremji [00:17:44]:
You have no idea what the facts are. You know, you sometimes—
Nikoo Beremji [00:17:47]:
we, we have cases where we find out about certain very important facts in court from the other side that our client never told us.
Leah Hadley [00:17:54]:
Yeah.
Nikoo Beremji [00:17:55]:
So you can't guarantee any kind of outcome. You don't. Sometimes it comes down to the judge, sometimes it comes down to whatever. Evidence is available. So I, I think somebody who's— I would rather have somebody who's honest with me and tell me like, here's what we think will happen, but you know, there's no guarantees, and here's what we can do to kind of increase the likelihood of the outcome that you want. But that's— that honesty to me is, is very important. Um, and I would— kind of an obvious one— I would really try to check references. I would ask them, you know, can I speak to other clients that you've had in the past? Can I— you know, reviews are reliable to a certain extent.
Nikoo Beremji [00:18:27]:
I think there's a lot of review gating and fake reviews that are out there. So, um, but I would ask, can I speak to another one of your clients who's had a case similar to mine? And an experienced lawyer should be able to do that.
Leah Hadley [00:18:40]:
That's fantastic. I think that's great advice. I have a client, unfortunately, who started with an attorney who had given her some guidance around spousal support, and according to her— now, obviously, I wasn't part of that conversation, so I don't know for sure— but the guidance that he gave was pretty out of line with where the legal system really ends up putting support in their state. And so, um, when we had our first meeting with him, he had basically promised her the sun, the moon, and the stars when they had their consultation. So she retained him. And when we actually like sat down and started going through the numbers, he reduced that spousal support number by nearly half. And her mind was just exploding because for her, that number is a safety number, right? It's what gives her some security in knowing that she can, you know, pay for her, her current lifestyle. And so when that number dropped all of a sudden, now she's like, I don't understand what happened between the first conversation with her attorney and the conversation that we had.
Leah Hadley [00:19:40]:
And in all honesty, I think the conversation that they had initially was just, how can I get her to hire me?
Nikoo Beremji [00:19:46]:
Right?
Leah Hadley [00:19:46]:
Yeah. And so, um, it is, it's important to, I think that was really good advice to just be very wary of anybody who's giving you that kind of guidance in that first conversation. Because I know sometimes people push me on the financials to give them some kind of an idea. And it's like, well, I have to go through everything. And it takes a lot of time to go through everything. And so it's not something that like, off the top of my head, based on 10 minutes of a conversation, I'm going to give you any concept of what we're looking at here.
Nikoo Beremji [00:20:12]:
Yeah, I mean, we have clients sometimes who ask us in the first meeting, you know, how much is this whole thing going to cost from start to finish? That's a very difficult question to answer, right? I don't know what your spouse is going to be like. I don't know if they're going to want to litigate every issue to death. I don't know if, you know, so like, definitely for sure, if I mean, I don't know how things are done where you were, where you are, and some of the other jurisdictions. But like, if I've heard of lawyers doing like flat fee divorces and charging one fee, that's a huge red flag to me because you are— at some point it's going to become not worth that lawyer's time to continue spending, you know, an infinite amount of time on your case based on the price that they originally quoted. So I think, um, it's a good sign if you are talking to an attorney and they are being honest about the things they cannot guarantee up front.
Leah Hadley [00:20:54]:
Yeah.
Nikoo Beremji [00:20:55]:
I would, I would see that as a good sign, and the same from a lawyer's perspective, a good client is somebody who also is okay with hearing things that might not be what they want to, you know, hear. So, um, because, you know, obviously we all wish that things would go exactly how we would want them to go, but that's not, that's not always the case.
Leah Hadley [00:21:17]:
Well, that's the perfect segue into this question that I have for you, and that is, what are the qualities or habits that you have seen in clients who actually navigate divorce fairly well?
Nikoo Beremji [00:21:30]:
Oh, um, you know, for sure I would say it goes back to having that like future focus. So it's not, it's not the ones who necessarily have like the simplest cases or the easiest cases. Sometimes our best clients are clients— we have, we have cases that drag on for 6, 7 years. And so, and they're wonderful clients because they understand, like, they don't lose sight of the fact that it's not, you know, the right questions to ask are not like, how do I beat my spouse? Or how do I— it's more like, how do I build the next chapter of my life? How do I— they're willing to take advice even if it's not what they hope to hear. Like I said, it definitely is some more practical things like staying organized can be very helpful in your divorce process. Somebody who kind of is willing to be responsive. You sometimes— I think it's shocking to me how how hard it is. I know the common complaint people have of their attorneys is that their attorneys don't respond or get back to them in time, but we have that issue sometimes with clients where we'll ask them for documents and we don't hear anything back.
Nikoo Beremji [00:22:30]:
Or, you know, so be organized, be responsive, um, you know, and, and choose your battles carefully. I think that's, uh, those— the clients that do well are the clients who understand that. again, it goes back to that. It's not— you're not going to win based on being the most contentious, the most aggressive, and trying to fight every battle. It's like with parenting, right? You choose your battles carefully. You have to be strategic about that. And yeah, they're the ones who really don't lose sight of what is it that's going to matter most to them in 5 years, and they make their decisions based on that. Those are the ones I think who come out the strongest when the process is done.
Leah Hadley [00:23:13]:
Yeah, I just want to highlight something that you just said, Nikoo, for our listeners, and that is the importance of being organized. Because I can tell you, the clients who come in and have their financial documents ready, clean, organized, they save a tremendous amount of money on their case because there's not all this back and forth, right?
Nikoo Beremji [00:23:34]:
Yes.
Leah Hadley [00:23:35]:
Because you have the information at your fingertips, you can find the information that's at your fingertips. It is huge. So, so many people are so stressed about the cost of the divorce. And if there's one thing that I could just reiterate one more time is that if you approach it from an organized space, getting yourself, you know, clear about what your priorities are, getting your documents in order, the whole thing will just go so much smoother and, and you will save a tremendous amount of money.
Nikoo Beremji [00:24:02]:
Absolutely. I'm an attorney who's very happy about the rise of divorce coaches, this whole, this is kind of a newer phenomenon.
Leah Hadley [00:24:12]:
Yeah.
Nikoo Beremji [00:24:13]:
And I'm happy about it because I think it makes it, yeah, I'd much rather a client not have to pay for an attorney's time to kind of sit through and go through bank records and go through all of that if they can present it to us in an organized fashion and they know, you know, like you said, it's not 10 emails back and forth to find the answer to something. That's saving them money, it's saving us time so we can focus more on strategy and other things. And so, yeah, being organized is a, Is and, and being prepared, and it can be very helpful and it can save a lot of money.
Leah Hadley [00:24:40]:
Yeah, so many great tips in this episode. Nikoo, thank you so much for sharing your time and your thoughts and your wisdom. Any final advice you want to share with our listeners?
Nikoo Beremji [00:24:53]:
Um, just, you know, if there's one thing that I would, would recommend for somebody going through a divorce, it's a very hard process, it's a very stressful process, and usually it's It's happening because there have been years of somebody's needs not getting met and feeling like they are not being validated. They're not being adequately acknowledged. I mean, so I understand the need for really wanting that validation and wanting to feel right now. Same with wanting to wanting the kids to even understand your perspective now. But I I would really encourage people to stay focused on what do I want? 5 years from now? Like, what do I want my life to look like 5 years from now? What do I want my kids' life to look like 5 years from now? And optimize for that, not optimizing for like right now. What would— what do I have to do to win in court this particular hearing no matter what? So will, will a certain decision in your case actually improve your life after the divorce? I would really just encourage people to focus on that.
Leah Hadley [00:25:53]:
Fantastic. Again, thank you so much. I know there are going to be listeners who are going to have an interest following up with you, where is the best place for them to learn more about your practice and to connect with you?
Nikoo Beremji [00:26:04]:
We have a lot of information, a lot of resources on our website. It's www.berenjifamilylaw.com. We also put out tidbits on our Instagram. It's, uh, you can follow us at Berenji Family Law. And anybody who has questions is welcome to call us at the office. Our number is 310-271-6290.
Leah Hadley [00:26:25]:
Fantastic. And we will make sure to include all of that information in the show notes, so be sure to reach out if you have questions. And just because you are an attorney and I know you have a specific jurisdiction that you practice in, what area does your practice cover?
Nikoo Beremji [00:26:39]:
We are in Southern California. We're based in Beverly Hills, so we only take on cases in those courts in the Southern California area.
Leah Hadley [00:26:47]:
Fantastic. Again, thank you so much for being here.
Nikoo Beremji [00:26:49]:
Thank you.
Leah Hadley [00:26:50]:
Oh, my pleasure. And for our listeners, thank you for joining us, and we will see you next time.
Leah Hadley [00:26:56]:
Thank you for joining me on Intentional Divorce Insights. It's a privilege to share this time with you. I hope each episode offers valuable guidance to navigate your journey. If you find our content helpful, please leave a review to help others discover the benefits of intentional decision-making in divorce. Until next time, take care and continue to embrace your path with intention.
Leah Hadley [00:27:21]:
Thank you.
