Leah Hadley [00:00:01]:
Welcome to Intentional Divorce Insights. I'm Leah Hadley, certified divorce financial analyst, accredited financial counselor, and the founder of Intentional Divorce Solutions. I'll be your guide through the complexities of divorce, finance and emotional wellness. Join me as we uncover practical tips and empowering insights to help you navigate your divorce with clarity and intention. Hi there and welcome back to Intentional Divorce Insights. I am so happy that you are here with us today. You're right where you need to be and we have a wonderful guest here today. Tammy Gustafson is back, so if you saw her before, I'll be sure to link her prior episode in the show notes.
Leah Hadley [00:00:41]:
But it is my absolute pleasure to welcome Tammy back. In case you don't remember, she is a trauma informed licensed professional counselor, coach and speaker with over 15 years of experience. She holds a master's degree in counseling and is the founder and CEO of Betrayal Healing and Live Free Counseling. Tammy hosts the annual Betrayal Healing Conference and and is the author of Broken to Brave a Courageous Act of Healing After Intimate Betrayal. Welcome, Tammy. Thanks for being here.
Tammy Gustafson [00:01:11]:
Thanks so much for having me. Always a pleasure.
Leah Hadley [00:01:14]:
Oh, absolutely. And I'm really excited to hear about this new book. So tell us about the book. What inspired you? Tell us all the things.
Tammy Gustafson [00:01:23]:
Yeah, so this book is. It's the book I wish I could have had, that I would have had when life blew up for me. Because when, you know, my focus is in helping women heal from betrayal. And when that happens, it feels like. It feels like life blew up. And you have no idea which way is up or down, forward or backwards, if you're going in the right direction, if it's even possible to heal and, quote, get to the other side. And so, so this is a book I wish I would have had that would have said, like, hey, one, it is totally possible. You can absolutely heal.
Tammy Gustafson [00:02:01]:
And hey, here's the direction to go. There is a path. It's not a razor thin path. There's no one right way to heal. But here's some guideposts and some directions along the way to help you get from point A to point B, for lack of a better term, as quickly and smoothly as possible.
Leah Hadley [00:02:21]:
And that's what we all want, right? Just help in kind of putting one step in front of one foot, I should say in front of the other. I like this title a lot. From broken to brave because they're just such a clear image that goes with that.
Tammy Gustafson [00:02:34]:
Right.
Leah Hadley [00:02:35]:
I'm curious, in the work that you do, how do you see women moving from broken to brave? What does that look like?
Tammy Gustafson [00:02:42]:
Yeah, I think everybody feels very broken in the beginning, right? You feel shattered. And so this process of. I love this example of, like, a mosaic where it's like, all of a sudden, it's like you're shattered. You feel like you're in a thousand pieces. You're just in this mess of, like, broken glass that's your life around you. And so part of this process, as you go through it is, first of all, like, just realizing going, oh, my gosh, what just happened? And then over time and throughout this process, starting to go, okay, let's clear some stuff away. Let's start to sort through this. What pieces do I want to keep? What pieces do I not want to keep? And as you go, you start to.
Tammy Gustafson [00:03:25]:
You start to get your voice. You start to feel like, what do I want? What do I need, man? I am important. And as time goes on and you're going through the wrestling through things with your partner and going like, okay, are these pieces starting to form? What's the pattern that all these pieces, these broken pieces are starting to form, right? And then eventually moving to that place in your healing where you can create this beautiful mosaic. And I love mosaics. In fact, I have a lamp right next to my computer where I'm looking at where
Tammy Gustafson [00:03:58]:
all these broken pieces of glass put together, and you can create something new and beautiful. And, man, there. If there is anything this process takes, it is courage and bravery. And so seeing women on the other side who have done the work and done their healing, who. Who can stand tall, not without scars, not without heartbreaks and wounds along the way, but they're like, they now know who they are. They believe in themselves, and they can go, okay, I am going to intentionally create a life that I'm excited about living, and it's going to be good.
Leah Hadley [00:04:31]:
Oh, that is so beautiful. And I have to say, the whole mosaic metaphor really resonates with me. My dad laid tile for a living, and so we used to have all those little tile samples in our garage when I was growing up. And so he used to let me take them and, like, make pictures out of them and stuff. And so it's so funny because, you know, in that example, right, I was using, essentially, trash, right, to make these really fun, beautiful mosaics. And sometimes we feel like we're just starting from this point of, like, where nothing really makes sense, right? But when you start to put it all together, I just love that image. I just think that's such a beautiful image.
Leah Hadley [00:05:11]:
Tammy, tell us a little bit more about, like, the process that you walk people through in the book.
Tammy Gustafson [00:05:17]:
Yeah, so the process is really what I call the betrayal healing phases. And so we've talked a little bit about that before, but I came up with four phases of healing after betrayal. And this was based off of definitely my experience of going through betrayal, but also my clinical experience of walking women through this. And there's very clear, recognizable patterns from my perspective, particularly as a clinician. So first phase is that first phase is when everything breaks. And it's the reveal phase, where you're trying to find out the truth.
Tammy Gustafson [00:05:54]:
And then you move into, once you have the truth or knowing you will never get the full truth, then you kind of move into that phase two. And that phase two is what I call rumble. And that is where that really long, deep work of finding your voice going, do I want to say? Do I want to go, what, like, grieving? What do I do with this pain? How do I deal with this anger? Like, what is this all about? And learning to deal with gaslighting, learning how to interact with your partner as he may or may not be, getting sober and healing, and then moving into phase three. That's really where the relationship become. It becomes clear the direction the relationship is going, whether that's healing, whether that's divorce, whether that's a roommate phase, or you're staying, but he's not fully doing the work. And then phase four is where everybody comes back together, and this is no matter what happens in the relationship, but it's the shift of the focus that organically happens, shifting from focusing on him in the relationship to focusing on, like, I need to heal, like, I need to focus on me. And so the book walks people through these phases.
Tammy Gustafson [00:07:01]:
It doesn't pull her out of the relationship and say, here's how you need to heal, but it's walking. It's like, I'm. I'm a companion along the way as she's walking through this path. And so the book is really written. It's like a long conversation over coffee between me and a betrayed partner. And where it is, there's so much empowerment in there of, like, hey, you've got this. It's really pretty straight shooting in a very gentle, compassionate way of, like, no, you matter. You matter.
Tammy Gustafson [00:07:36]:
And here's some steps along the way, and here's some things to avoid, because there's a lot of ways that women in particular can get stuck along the way. And so knowing those and being able to be like, hey, watch out for this. Like, stay clear of this. Hey, this is a really important thing to focus on. Like, for instance, trust. Trust, if you focus on it too early, it will shut down your healing process.
Tammy Gustafson [00:08:03]:
So, and after betrayal, trust is earned by him. It is not given. Trust is not given anymore. It's earned. So just helping kind setting women straight a little bit on this counterintuitive process of healing so that they can move smoothly. Well, it never feels smooth, but as smooth as possible through this.
Leah Hadley [00:08:26]:
So what are some examples, some of these places where you're seeing women getting stuck?
Tammy Gustafson [00:08:33]:
Yeah, well, trust is one.
Leah Hadley [00:08:36]:
Sure.
Tammy Gustafson [00:08:36]:
A lot. A lot of women focus on it early on. Forgiveness is another where if you focus on it too early or if you feel pressure and you're doing it because you're getting outside or even internal pressure that you need to, that's one that they can get stuck in. Another one. And I think your audience might resonate with this is like, sometimes that decision of whether to stay or go can become a stuck point. It is so vital that I think everybody wrestle with this. I think that is an honest thing they wrestle with and this. But sometimes it can become so consuming of like, do I stay or do I go? And it becomes the thing that is the most.
Tammy Gustafson [00:09:20]:
That is the biggest focus. And sometimes we have to go. Let's pause that for a little bit. Let's pause it for however long is comfortable for you and work on this area of grief and healing. Now, one thing that all women, no matter what happens with their relationship, have to deal with is grief, right?
Leah Hadley [00:09:38]:
Sure.
Tammy Gustafson [00:09:38]:
And so one way that women can get stuck a lot throughout the entire process is sadness and anger both have to be a part of grief. And what happens is that most of us are more comfortable with one than the other. And so I find this particularly around. women can get stuck around anger. Either they are not comfortable with anger, they told that anger was not good, so they avoid it, or they're disconnected from it, or they had a scary parent and it's a scary thing to engage. Well, that's usually where they get stuck. Usually a lot of the conversation is about rage. Usually women don't get stuck in rage.
Tammy Gustafson [00:10:19]:
Usually women get stuck when they're not connected with their anger. And the problem is if you pull anger out of grief, you'll just cycle in sadness. Or if you're like, nope, I do not want to do sadness because it is too vulnerable. I'm just going to pull sadness out. Then you cycle in anger and so that is. That is one of the big ones that I help women walk through, no matter where they're at in the process is just helping them continue to lean into their emotions, to feel them, to honor them, and that the grieving process really is the healing process.
Leah Hadley [00:10:55]:
Oh, that's so powerful. And that's really helpful to get clear, because I think for some of our listeners, they can really kind of sit with what you just said and see where they're at, right. See if they are leaning into one particular area that might be keeping them from where they want to be. So that. That's really helpful, Tammy. Now, I know that you have worked with a lot of people over the years. You have this amazing conference that supports so many people. You did all this research for, for the book.
Leah Hadley [00:11:22]:
Tell me a little bit about the patterns that you're seeing of women who are finding that resilience and that strength. So.
Tammy Gustafson [00:11:36]:
I love that question because there, there is so much. You know, it's like you. You have to walk through the fire. And so for those who really find that resilience, find that strength, find thriving through life, they're the ones who face. Who face it and face the pain. And it takes so much courage and so much bravery to do that. But when a woman is able to sit with it or not, of course men are betrayed as well. My audience just happens to be more women.
Tammy Gustafson [00:12:14]:
But when, when betrayed partners are really able to face it and lean into it and honor their experience and what they're going through, that is a crucial piece of it. I think having people around is helpful because there's a very important piece of, like, making meaning of their story as well. And I don't mean making meaning like everybody has to go out and become a coach and do this, but being able to go through it and go, I am. important. I'm a worthwhile person. This was not my fault. This was not my fault.
Tammy Gustafson [00:12:49]:
This was a decision that my partner made. And I am going to move forward, whether it's with him or without him. And I am going to choose to lean into life. I'm going to choose to create a life that I want to live. And that's a really important piece. And especially for. Especially for those whose story did not turn out how they wanted to. Being able to pull their head up and look, look above, and look above the
Tammy Gustafson [00:13:22]:
you know, I always think about the trenches, like when you're in the trenches of all the pain and everything you're going through, when you can get your head up and you can start to see. And go. I am choosing. I am choosing to press into the beauty of life. I am choosing to press in and to find fun again. I am choosing to step forward and go, you know what? This is not going to define me. Even though this was never what I want my story to be. It is my story, but it is not going to define me.
Tammy Gustafson [00:13:52]:
I'm going to learn from this and grow from it. And it's the. In the counseling world, we have this term post traumatic growth, and that's really what we're talking about of, like, yes, this bad thing happened, and yes, this was hard, and I honor that. And yes, I have scars from it. But you know what? I'm going to stand up and I am now going to move forward and purposely craft life how I want it to go as best I can moving forward.
Leah Hadley [00:14:17]:
This is such an important message that you're sharing, Tammy. And one of the things that we teach in the intentional money method is that it starts with that intention. We have to make the decision. We have to make the choice. We have to be intentional before or we do anything else. Right. We have to make that decision. And what I love about the simplicity of that is it just puts you in the driver's seat.
Leah Hadley [00:14:41]:
Right. You get to decide right. Now, I know that the steps that come after that can be really challenging, don't get me wrong. But I just. I feel like that's such an empowering statement, right, that you get to choose. You get to make that choice and create the life that you want.
Tammy Gustafson [00:14:57]:
Yeah. I remember when life blew up for me and I was sitting in my minivan and. And really grappling with. I can picture where I was really grappling with this idea of my marriage may not make it through this. And I remember, however, that in that moment, in the midst of all that pain, there was this little, like, spark and fight inside of me that I was like, I am going to be okay. Whether my marriage makes it or not, no matter what happens with this,
Tammy Gustafson [00:15:32]:
I am going to be okay. So I love what you're talking about, too. Of like, it has to be intentional at some point. Of like, okay, I am. I am going to do this.
Leah Hadley [00:15:45]:
Yeah. For sure. Now, I'm sure that we do have some listeners who are right in the thick of it right now. Maybe they recently found out a betrayal or. Or there's something going on. What is one just small thing that you would tell them to do? Now when they're kind of like feeling overwhelmed with what's just happened.
Tammy Gustafson [00:16:11]:
Well, two things actually come to mind, if that's okay. One, I want you to know that you have great worth and value. You have great worth and value. That I know this can feel like it shatters you to your very core. But what your partner has done or not done, whether you're with him or not, that does not change that you are a valuable person and that you get to fight for yourself and you get to have a wife, a life that you're excited about living. So that. That's one. That's not an action step, but something I want them to know.
Tammy Gustafson [00:16:55]:
The other thing I would say is find safe help. Like, find somebody who specializes in this area that you're struggling with so that you can have someone come alongside you so you are not alone in this process. So that would be my other thing to offer.
Leah Hadley [00:17:15]:
Absolutely. And I like that because it can feel like such a lonely, lonely, isolating process. And so knowing, of course, that you're not alone, but then also having that person who is standing beside you to empower you. Right. It's so easy to find people, especially online, who will drag you down. They'll stay in the muck with you if that's where you want to be. But really, to identify that partner who's is going to help move you forward is so powerful.
Tammy Gustafson [00:17:43]:
Can I offer one more thing as I was talking about it? Because I know most, most of the people listening right now, they've. They're going through divorce or they've been divorced, Right. And so. And that's a trauma in and of itself. Oh, my gosh. Right. So when you come up for air and be very gentle with yourself and take all the time that you need to, but when you start to look, when you get the lay of the land and you're like, oh, my gosh, like, it's like you're standing amidst the rubble of an earthquake, Right? And you're like, where do I start? How do I start picking up these pieces? There are so many aspects of life that I need to. That need help and need attention.
Tammy Gustafson [00:18:26]:
And what I would say is, is pick one. Pick one and put your time and focus there. Obviously, life is complicated and whatnot, but if you're really looking at what's the one area that I want to put, whatever extra time and energy and resources I have, pick one and very gently put the others on hold and say, hey, I will come back, I will come back, but pick one and then focus on that. A lot of times it is finances, right? Because you have to have finances for safety and stability. So it's like, put your focus there, work on that, be patient with yourself as you get that under control and back where you want it to be, and then you can go on to the next one. But if you try to tackle getting on top of finances and eating healthy and losing 20 pounds all at the same time, it just becomes overwhelming. And so I would say be very gentle with yourself. Pick one at a time.
Tammy Gustafson [00:19:25]:
And then once that is in a place of stability, then you can take all that time and resources and energy and whatnot and focus on the next one and allow yourself a slow, steady process of recovery and healing.
Leah Hadley [00:19:40]:
So many things that you say, Tammy, are just words that I hope people are taking in and will just repeat to themselves. But things like being patient with yourself, taking your time. I mean, as you've been listening to this interview, you've heard Tammy say these things a few times. And I think it's really easy to just not be patient with ourselves, right? To try to rush through the discomfort and do everything at once, whatever that looks like for you. And I would just reiterate and encourage what Tammy saying is just to do one thing at a time. So that way you aren't feeling completely overwhelmed. You feel like you're making progress. Because that's the other thing that happens, right, Tammy? Like people try to do everything at once and then they're not making progress on anything.
Leah Hadley [00:20:21]:
Right. And that can feel so frustrating when you're already feeling, you know, very vulnerable and you're not seeing that progress. So progress really does help you build that confidence in various areas of your life. So that's so powerful. I'm so appreciative of you being here with us, Tammy, and your book. I'm so excited to read your book. Your book comes out today. Congratulations.
Tammy Gustafson [00:20:43]:
Thank you. Very excited people.
Leah Hadley [00:20:45]:
Get a copy of your book, Tammy.
Tammy Gustafson [00:20:48]:
Best place is probably Amazon. Okay. They can get on there, order it, that'd be awesome.
Leah Hadley [00:20:54]:
We will be sure to include a link to the book so you can get that on Amazon. And Tammy has a fabulous conference going on right now. She's been doing this for several years now. It has touched literally thousands of people. Tell us about the Betrayal Healing Conference.
Tammy Gustafson [00:21:12]:
So it is a five day conference, so this is just day two. So jump on in and join us. The conference is free, but it's really what my, what my heart part behind this is. I want to create a, a gathering place where you can come and get empowerment and encouragement to know you're not alone, to have safe speakers like Leah come and speak and to talk about these different topics so that you can just get this kind of infusion of, of hope and strength and guidance by, by safe experts.
Leah Hadley [00:21:49]:
I so appreciate that. And also, Tammy, reiterating the word safe multiple times because the reality is that there are a lot of different people out there with different experiences and different backgrounds and it is really important to vet the professionals that you're working with and make sure that they're really going to support you. I think when people are really feeling vulnerable as a result of betrayal, they're at a greater risk of being taken advantage of. And so making sure that you are working with, with people who are vetted. I love this resource. The people who are speaking this year and the people who have spoken in past years, just so many fantastic resources with the Betrayal Healing Conference. So thank you so much, Tammy, for sharing this resource with us. We can't wait to check out your book.
Leah Hadley [00:22:35]:
Thank you for being here with us today.
Tammy Gustafson [00:22:38]:
Thanks so much for having me. I appreciate it.
Leah Hadley [00:22:40]:
Absolutely. And for our listeners, we will see you next week. Thank you for joining me on Intentional Divorce Insights. It's a privilege to share this time with you. I hope each episode offers valuable guidance to navigate your journey. If you find our content helpful, please leave a review to help others discover the benefits of intentional decision making in divorce. Until next time, take care and continue to embrace your path with intention.
