Leah Hadley [00:00:01]:
Welcome to Intentional Divorce Insights. I'm Leah Hadley, certified divorce financial analyst, accredited financial counselor, and the founder of Intentional Divorce Solutions. I'll be your guide through the complexities of divorce, finance, and emotional wellness. Join me as we uncover practical tips and empowering insights to help you navigate your divorce with clarity and intention. Hi there. Welcome back to Intentional Divorce Insights. I am so happy that you are here with us today. We have a fabulous guest who's gonna be sharing some information about a really special event that is coming up later this month.
Leah Hadley [00:00:40]:
So stay tuned for that. But let me welcome our guest. This is Tammy Gustafson, who I have had the pleasure of knowing for a few years now, but I'm gonna have her introduce herself and tell you a little bit about her background.
Tammy Gustafson [00:00:54]:
Yeah. Thanks so much for having me on, Leah. I appreciate it. So I am Tammy Gustafson. I am a counselor and a coach, and my, focus is really on helping those heal after betrayal. I'm also I have a counseling practice, so I do a lot of, trauma work and EMDR and PTSD. But this area of helping people heal after betrayal is really my heart and passion. So and that's that's how we got connected a couple years ago.
Tammy Gustafson [00:01:27]:
I host the betrayal healing conference and, and just try to provide services for for betrayed partners. My practice is mainly women, but just to help them, move through betrayal and move through that healing process so that they can get to a point of seeing joy and adventure and a beauty again in the world.
Leah Hadley [00:01:52]:
Well, I love that. So what was the original impetus behind starting the betrayal healing conference, and how long has it been going on for?
Tammy Gustafson [00:02:02]:
Well, this is the 4th year.
Leah Hadley [00:02:04]:
Fantastic.
Tammy Gustafson [00:02:06]:
So yeah. You know, the the core of it is really simple. It's that I want to gather, people who are healing or people who are hurting and healing from betrayal, and I wanna gather safe speakers, who can help them, grow and who will empower them and validate them. Because the reality is is that nobody nobody expects for betrayal to happen to them, and nobody prepares you for it. So when it does happen, it is so shattering and is so disorienting that you know? And this is part of my story as well. So it's like you don't know where to turn. You don't know who to go to. You don't know which way is up.
Tammy Gustafson [00:02:51]:
You don't know if you're headed in the right direction or if you're going backwards. And what happens is that a lot of people end up they they search usually for a marriage counselor, because they think this happened within a relationship. So it's a couple's issue. It's not a couple's issue. Right? It's his issue. If he is the one that is betrayed, that's his issue. But what I find is that by the time women hit my office, they've usually experienced a lot of hurt and pain from professionals and therapists, or faith leaders or whoever it may be. And so there's a lot of information out there that's really it's really hurtful, and it can it can make the healing process even more difficult.
Tammy Gustafson [00:03:38]:
So I am very protective of the betrayed partners. And so creating this space where I handpick the speakers, who I do my absolute best to vet and so I know that they will come and they will get information that is going to be helpful and healing, that that is my heart and my passion behind the conference.
Leah Hadley [00:04:00]:
That's awesome. And you have had some amazing speakers in the past. Who can we look forward to seeing this year? What are some of the highlights?
Tammy Gustafson [00:04:08]:
Yeah. I'm very excited. Peter Levine, doctor Peter Levine, who founded Somatic Experiencing, is talking. And, man, I mean, not only is he brilliant and world renowned, but he is like the grandfather I wish that we all had as he was talking in the interview. So I'm really excited about that. In the area of divorce, Lundy Bancroft is going to be on, and he's really talking about abuse, which is one of those, it's one of the areas we're not talking about enough. And it's one of the areas that, I think has gone under the radar, and and women are betrayed partners in general have had to deal with that themselves. And for those who are going through divorce, they're especially if there's kids, man, there's a whole another added layer of the abuse of the justice system and the custody and all of that going on.
Tammy Gustafson [00:05:05]:
So he has some really phenomenal things to say. So I'm I'm excited about him, and then there's, gosh, there's Jake Porter and Michelle Mays and Barbara Stephens and you. I love having you on the conference and talking about the financial piece because that is so important, and it's one of the ways that women really get stuck is the fear of what is this gonna look like financially if I get divorced. So I'm so excited you are.
Leah Hadley [00:05:33]:
I appreciate that. And the other piece of it is they have so much fear around who to trust. And so I love that you're bringing all of these trusted professionals together So that way, they know, hey. These people have been vetted. I feel comfortable with these people. It's safe to reach out to them. That's really important, especially when it comes to finances. Because so often, you know, people go to a professional and then they're talked down to and they have a negative experience, it's, like, was a lot to overcome to make that call to begin with, and now they're having a negative experience.
Leah Hadley [00:06:07]:
It's just a really tough situation.
Tammy Gustafson [00:06:10]:
Yeah. And I think that fear can keep women in relationships that maybe are no longer healthy for them, but they're they're so afraid of when they don't know how to do it, or they're so afraid that I can't support myself. I can't support my kids. I'm gonna be destitute. All of that. And so to have you speak at the conference, but then also what you just do in your job as well to help women alleviate that fear and to walk with them. Oh my gosh. That is so valuable.
Leah Hadley [00:06:44]:
I appreciate that very much, Tammy. So how many speakers are there overall?
Tammy Gustafson [00:06:50]:
There are 35, about 35 this year. There's a lot. Yeah.
Leah Hadley [00:06:56]:
That's, like, how many days does it go for?
Tammy Gustafson [00:06:59]:
It goes for 5 days, and there's some speakers who are doing a couple talks, so it's probably more around, like, 40 ish or a little bit more. So there's a lot. It's spread out over 5 days, and then so every day, I release, about 7 or 8 or whatever the math that equals out to. And then everybody has 24 hours to listen to those. I purposely I thought about doing the speakers, but I just couldn't, because I was like, I want I want to give the information. And we're also doing a little bit of specialization. Like, some are all just for betrayed partners. Then there are some specifically around divorce.
Tammy Gustafson [00:07:37]:
And then there's also a few interviews that are, specific to those who, did the betraying, and also some for professionals. And so there's so so you don't have to listen to all of them. Right? You can kind of pick and choose what you want. But the reality is is that everyone really benefit from all of them, and I think sometimes it's important to see the other side and to hear the other side. So, yeah, I just I hope it is empowering and encouraging for everyone who comes.
Leah Hadley [00:08:11]:
And when does it start?
Tammy Gustafson [00:08:13]:
It starts on Monday, January 27th through 31st.
Leah Hadley [00:08:19]:
So we will have a link in the show notes that you can use to register. There's no cost to register. So I encourage you that even if you only can listen to a couple, to take advantage of that opportunity, but, also, if you really wanna take advantage of it and you just don't have time that particular week, there's another opportunity to get the recordings. Right, Tammy?
Tammy Gustafson [00:08:42]:
That's right. So people can upgrade and purchase the all access pass, and then that way, they would have access to all the interviews for a year, so kind of unlimited access. And then there's also a bunch of speaker bonuses, which are usually discounts on, gosh, on ebooks, on courses. There's some free webinars, some free Q and A's, all sorts of all sorts of bonus stuff. We also did a panel. We did 2 panels this year, one with women for those who have gone through it, some of the speakers who have gone through it, and about what they wish they would have known when this happened, when this blew up for them. And then, also, there is, a panel which may or may not be helpful, for your audience if they're in the middle of divorce, but it's about, is he in good recovery? So it might be if you are going through a divorce, you are still welcome to listen to it because it might be really validating that, like, yeah. No.
Tammy Gustafson [00:09:41]:
He wasn't he wasn't doing the work. So yeah. So there's a couple couple little extras there too.
Leah Hadley [00:09:49]:
So some of the folks listening probably have experienced betrayal of some sort, and, you know, hopefully, they're gonna get some phenomenal resources from the conference. But are there just some quick tips that you could give people or things to think about, if you're just kinda having trouble and you're stuck in that space?
Tammy Gustafson [00:10:11]:
Stuck in the space of stuck in what space?
Leah Hadley [00:10:16]:
Like The betrayal.
Tammy Gustafson [00:10:18]:
Oh, of the betrayal. Absolutely. There's a lot of ways to get stuck in this because it's a very counterintuitive healing process. So a couple key ones. First of all, if you were betrayed, this is not your fault. Period. Full stop. It's not your fault.
Tammy Gustafson [00:10:42]:
And I think just about everyone struggles with that because they might be being told by their partner that it is their fault. Well, you weren't having enough sex with me. Well, it was after the baby was born and you weren't available. Oh, well, you know, we drifted apart, whatever the case may be. Or society also blames the one who was betrayed. Well, clearly, you weren't having enough sex with him. Otherwise, he wouldn't have. Right? There's that shame messages that society gives, or even our internal.
Tammy Gustafson [00:11:11]:
It's like when you've been betrayed, it's like every insecurity you've ever had in your life is suddenly on steroids and feels like it's true. So and usually this goes to, well, I'm not good enough. Or, you know, I just my my boobs weren't big enough. My stomach this. My if I was more attentive, I was more fun. There's all these shame messages that can come flooding in that, that try to convince the betrayed partner that it was her fault, and it is not. Like, if we think about a regular relationship, marriage, whatever the case may be, you know, we say it's 50/50, and we can we all kinda get that without betrayal. You know? Well, we all kinda get that.
Tammy Gustafson [00:11:56]:
But when he crosses, and I'm using men because I typically work with female betrayed partners, but when he crosses that line of the relationship agreements, that is a 100% on him. And even if he didn't like what was going on here, there are a 100,000 things he could have done to address this, or he could have divorced you or broken up. Right? So when he crosses that line and betrays you, that is a 100% on him. You weren't, like, hoisting him up or, like, giving him a leg up over that wall or that line, So it is on him. And so that's the first step, or that's the first thing that I wanna just tell everybody listening is this is not your fault, and you can heal. OK? You can heal whether your relationship makes it or not, whether you're in the middle of divorce, whether you're on the whether you're past divorce, you can heal and have a beautiful life ahead of you. But some things, some ways to, keep going when you feel like you're stuck, one is if you're early on in this process and you've discovered this, it's not the time to focus on trust, not the time to focus on forgiveness. I think that's an easy or that's a common way that women get stuck in this process.
Tammy Gustafson [00:13:16]:
It is not the time for that. You focus on getting the truth and getting, safety around you, And then you can you can think about that stuff long down the road, but first, there is anger, there is all the emotions. You've gotta allow yourself to grieve and to feel the emotions, including anger. Anger is really important. And so allow yourself to stay in your shoes and for you to do your own work before you focus on any of that stuff, like trust and forgiveness.
Leah Hadley [00:13:45]:
I think that's such an important point because I think so often the messaging is to really sort of force those issues of trust and forgiveness and and a very quick time frame. And how can you even start to get there if you're not feeling safe. Right?
Tammy Gustafson [00:14:05]:
Totally. And, like, trust, we in early on in relationships, we just give trust. Like, we do that. Once there's been betrayal, it's not about giving trust anymore. It is about him being trustworthy and earning that over a long period of time. And forgiveness, how can you forgive something that you don't even know what you're forgiving? Like, if he hasn't told you, like, how can you do that? Right? And so and there's so much pressure. Right? And it's like, nope. That'll get you a place so far down the road.
Tammy Gustafson [00:14:36]:
Like, it will come up naturally when it's meant to. But if you feel any pressure from anyone or even yourself, just take a deep breath and and let it move forward. Because, really, first of all, you've got to you've gotta take care of you. Like, it's been it's like you are emotionally in a huge car wreck. You know? And you're on IVs and the ICU. Like, you gotta get to a place where you feel like you can breathe again, where you can start to see it, where you can start to get your strength back before you worry about any of that.
Leah Hadley [00:15:09]:
So, Tammy, tell us a little bit about the kind of work you do with people. I know you have a counseling practice, but how do you work with folks?
Tammy Gustafson [00:15:17]:
Well, I have a counseling practice here in Colorado, but the main stuff I do with betrayed partners is through my coaching business called Betrayal Healing. And so, yeah, I do 1 on 1 coaching, usually, virtually. I also I do the conference. I also do retreats to Paris, which is super fun for those far along in their healing process, no matter what happens to the relationship. So how I work with kind of individually or how I start there is when somebody comes in and I hear their story, what I'm there's kind of a mental list that I'm running through my head of of certain, like, key aspects of healing that needs to happen. So so I just listen and I get curious about where are they at. Like, where are they stuck? Because, man, if if there's a stuck area, I wanna help them get unstuck as fast as possible because this is a long enough process as it is to heal. We don't wanna slow it down.
Tammy Gustafson [00:16:15]:
Right? So first of all, I kinda look through that of where are they at with their their feeling like it was their fault? Where are they at with are they allowing themselves to grieve? What is their relationship like with anger? You know, how how do they feel about boundaries? How are they doing with boundaries? And their voice, like like setting boundaries and finding your voice and believing that you are worthy of having your voice, of having your wants and your desires and your needs and putting those out in the world, like taking up space. So I look at all those things, and then I help women kinda move through this process. And I've also developed, something I call the betrayal healing phases. And what it does is that it walks through, it walks along with a betrayed partner through the relationship dynamics that heal all the way through if the relationship ends, if it stays together, whatever. And so the first phase is that it's called reveal. Phase 1 is reveal, and that's when everything blows up, and you find out about what happened. And so it's all about getting the truth and getting safety. And then once you get the truth, or you know that you will he will never give you the truth, then you kinda move into phase 2, which is rumble.
Tammy Gustafson [00:17:34]:
And that's where a lot of this deep work is. This is the this is a phase where women are, like, I don't know if I'm gonna stay or if I'm gonna go. Like, I don't know if he's doing the work. She's she's hopefully developing her voice and boundaries and her strength. And then phase 3 starts where it kinda becomes clear the direction the relationship is headed. Whether that's it's moving towards healing, whether that it's moving towards divorce, or kind of this middle ground of roommates, where it's like he's not really doing the work, but she's not ready to to divorce and end it. And so it's kind of that middle that middle messy middle. And then there comes a point in time that kinda naturally happens, that kinda organically happens where women will walk into my office once they've gone through phase 3 or in phase 3, where they start to go, like, you know what? I need to focus on me.
Tammy Gustafson [00:18:28]:
I need to focus on my healing. And there's a shift that starts to happen, and that's phase 4, which I called well, phase 3 is realigned. Phase 4 is rebuild. And I I love this phase because it's where women get to start to go, okay. That was never never wanted that to be part of my story. And but now I have the whole I have my whole life ahead of me. So what do I want that life to look like? What have I lost? What have I gained? And how do I want to start making the life that I am excited about living? And so it's this whole process of her really stepping in and creating this life. And that's where my Paris retreat is really about.
Tammy Gustafson [00:19:11]:
It's kinda like the end of phase 3 and phase 4 of, like, finding you again, and all those pieces that got lost along the way and pulling them together, and you stepping into your strength and and, no longer focusing so much on the relationship, but on you and your healing. And it's beautiful. It is so beautiful. Women, man, they come it is possible to heal. They come through this, and, man, the women who have gone through this are some of the strongest women I know. It's incredible to see them heal.
Leah Hadley [00:19:44]:
Yeah. What a humbling experience to witness that transformation. I I feel loved that you do this Paris trip because so many of my clients who do end up ending a relationship grieve their visions of travel plan. And to have this be part of the transformation and to go somewhere and, you know, have a special retreat, I think that's amazing.
Tammy Gustafson [00:20:10]:
Yeah. I hear that a lot with the women who go. They just like, I always thought we would go to Paris together. That was their plan. Or I want to travel, but he didn't want to. And now it's and then they go. They fly there by themselves, like, which is, like, really empowering. But then they're met by this group of women who get it.
Tammy Gustafson [00:20:28]:
And, man, it's like there's this transformation into becoming soul sisters, and and, like because it's also it's really isolating and lonely a lot of times. So to be around a group of women who get it and who are healing and who can cry with you and who can laugh until you cry, you know, it's just like, oh, it's so great.
Leah Hadley [00:20:51]:
Fantastic. When's the next trip?
Tammy Gustafson [00:20:54]:
Next trip is in September. It's 10th through 16th. So we do all sorts of wonderful adventures and soul life giving things. It's it's fun. And eat a lot of chocolate croissants. Like, that's that is the main number one goal. Eat a lot of chocolate croissants.
Leah Hadley [00:21:16]:
You have your priorities straight
Tammy Gustafson [00:21:17]:
Right?
Leah Hadley [00:21:20]:
Tammy, I so appreciate you spending some time with us. I just love the work that you're doing, and I'm excited to get the word out to more people. If you are listening and you just wanna learn more about Tammy, and the Betrayal Healing Conference, where can they, connect with you, Tammy?
Tammy Gustafson [00:21:40]:
Yeah. My website to connect with me, my website betrayalhealing.com, and then, and then the conference through the link that Leah has. And, yeah, I would love would love to have you join us.
Leah Hadley [00:21:54]:
Terrific. Well, again, thank you so much for your time and for our audience. I look forward to talking with you next week. Thank you for joining me on Intentional Divorce Insights. It's a privilege to share this time with you. I hope each episode offers valuable guidance to navigate your journey. If you find our content helpful, please leave a review to help others discover the benefits of intentional decision making in divorce. Until next time, take care and continue to embrace your path with intention.