Leah Hadley [00:00:01]:
Welcome to Intentional Divorce Insights. I'm Leah Hadley, Certified Divorce Financial Analyst, Accredited Financial Counselor, and the founder of Intentional Divorce Solutions. I'll be your guide through the complexities of divorce, finance, and emotional wellness. Join me as we uncover practical tips and empowering insights to help you navigate your divorce with clarity and intention.
Leah Hadley [00:00:24]:
Hi there, and welcome back to Intentional Divorce Insights. I am so happy that you are here with me today. We have a wonderful guest, and we're going to be talking about something that I don't think enough people talk about. So I'm going to give you a little teaser there, and then we'll dive in in a minute. But this is Dr. Meredith Thompson. She is a TEDx speaker, executive coach, and renowned relationship researcher with over 20 years of experience studying human behavior, more than 5,000 academic citations, and her own personal life story. She has truly become a trusted voice on how invisible stressors of modern life can quietly sabotage your joy, intimacy, and wellness.
Leah Hadley [00:01:05]:
At PartnerLab, Dr. Meredith empowers individuals to navigate their most emotionally complex relationship questions with clarity, compassion, and research-backed tools.
Leah Hadley [00:01:18]:
Welcome.
Leah Hadley [00:01:18]:
Thank you so much for being with me today.
Dr. Merideth Thompson [00:01:20]:
Thank you so much, Leah. I'm thrilled to be here. And, and what a lovely introduction that was. Thank you so much.
Leah Hadley [00:01:25]:
Oh, absolutely. Now, I just love— when I was looking at your website and kind of doing some research before our interview, I just love this focus on bringing more joy into people's lives. And I know just a little bit about your story, and I know that was not always the case. So talk to us a little bit about kind of where you've been and where you are now and how you got there. Sure.
Dr. Merideth Thompson [00:01:48]:
So I was married for 22 years the first time, married my high school sweetheart. And stayed in that relationship at least 12 years too long because I was just, you know, at that point, all I heard was, you know, you stay together for the kids, you do it for the kids. And little did I realize how much harm was actually being brought until just I had an epiphany standing in the middle of the kitchen and went, oh my gosh, my children are learning really bad relationship dynamics. And they're learning it's either okay to treat a partner this way, or it's okay for a partner to treat them this way. That was kind of my epiphany. So, um, ended that relationship. Um, and actually about 6 months later, I was, I was on the dating apps, you know, after not having dated since high school. So I had no idea what I was doing at first.
Dr. Merideth Thompson [00:02:40]:
Oh my gosh, so many hard passes. Oh my gosh. I actually took a dating class that really helped me figure out how to date, like, strategically, smartly, safely. And, um, then met my current partner, who I tell people I made him in a lab. He's just fantastic. And yeah, I think I— if I'd known in those really rough years of my first marriage what life could be like— because I just thought it was going to be awful terrible, it's gonna be awful terrible for my kids and for me, and like, why would I do that, why would I blow up my life— if I'd known life could get this good and that my career would take off after getting out of a really unhealthy relationship. Darn it. That's my biggest regret is that I didn't do it sooner.
Dr. Merideth Thompson [00:03:26]:
So I love, love, love, love my life and my partner and my sons are excited to see me happy. So that makes a huge difference.
Leah Hadley [00:03:35]:
That's right. I mean, that's amazing, right? For your children to be able to witness choosing to really prioritize what What matters, right? What really matters in life. It's so valuable. Now, how did you ultimately come to the decision around your divorce? How long did that take?
Dr. Merideth Thompson [00:03:53]:
Oh man. I, I kind of, I think my, my body knew in 2006 that it was time to end it. And then, um, I just, I, I, my brain wasn't ready to accept that yet. And then in 2016, I learned some things about my partner's behavior, actually 2015. And then it still took me a year after that to like, because I kept thinking, oh, you're going to blow up your life, you're going to blow up your children's life. My parents had divorced when I was 9 and it was pretty ugly and it stayed ugly for years and years and years after that. I didn't want that. But I think really it was, it was these small moments.
Dr. Merideth Thompson [00:04:37]:
One was that moment standing in the kitchen recognizing, oh my gosh, what my children are learning. Um, there was also one point where when my, my ex at that time, my husband, said, realized that I was seriously contemplating, he said, you're never going to find anybody who loves you as much as I do. And I thought, oh, I would rather be by myself for the rest of my life than stay in this relationship. So that was like this burst of clarity. Um, and so it was, I think my body, yes, my body knew long, long, long before my brain was like ready to even contemplate it. But then once I had that clarity, it was like, we're going to get this done. There's things I would do differently, but, um, I, I was determined not to let it drag out.
Leah Hadley [00:05:27]:
Okay. What surprised you about the divorce process once you got into it?
Dr. Merideth Thompson [00:05:34]:
You know, it probably shouldn't have surprised me, but, and I think this happens for a lot of people, you just get surprised at what your soon-to-be ex-spouse, the way they behave and what they do. And, you know, I think it also surprised me what I was willing to do. You know, I went from, I was the primary breadwinner, but my spouse also had a full-time job. When we divorced, we lived in what I now call a stupidly big house. And my— once we sold that house, which took a little time, I moved into probably a 1,500-square-foot townhouse. Never been happier in my life. That's the thing that surprised me, is it, um, in addition to just, you know, that your life can change in ways you don't expect, and you're like, oh, I thought this would be like scary and miserable, and when you have control and influence, you know, I got to put on the walls whatever I wanted to. That was, that was pretty great.
Dr. Merideth Thompson [00:06:30]:
I would walk into my house quite frequently and go, ah, my house.
Leah Hadley [00:06:37]:
And, uh, so I love that you shared that because, you know, for a lot of people, that is one of the biggest points of contention as they are moving through the divorce process, is negotiating how is the marital home going to be handled and I've seen it through the work that I do time and time again where people do decide to, you know, get their own place or, you know, make a change and just like you have these really positive experiences. But there's a lot that goes into that because you have to grieve, right? I mean, the loss of— it's not just a house, right? It's a place where you lived. You have memories there. You're letting something pretty big go. And so that transition for a lot of people really get stuck in that space of just not being able to let go of, of the residence specifically. And from a financial standpoint, a lot of times that just leaves people in a difficult financial situation. So I'm curious, like, what was that experience like for you? Were you— did you know right away that you would feel good about selling, or like, kind of how did you go through that process?
Dr. Merideth Thompson [00:07:43]:
I knew we had to sell because, you know, A lot of times that's what happens, like, unless you have a ton of equity in the home or a lower mortgage. And, you know, we had too big of a mortgage looking back. And, um, yeah, as I said, the house was stupidly big, so it was too big for, you know, me and my son who was still at home. And so I, I don't know that I knew the things that, you know, wherever I lived would be fine, or much less like kind of energizing. But I knew I got— I had a lot of clarity about what needed to happen so that I kind of got my peace and my freedom back and getting out of that relationship. And so it didn't really matter where I lived. And that's— I will say, you know, this is almost 10 years later. The house my partner and I live in, we're actually renting right now in California for his job.
Dr. Merideth Thompson [00:08:33]:
It's 1,500 square feet. You know, it's— you don't— it's— and a lot of times, actually, that's one thing that I found is people, the people who bought our stupidly big house after we sold it, Like 3 years later, they got divorced. And so people often, you know, we were tempted. I think about it as financial leakage when we're like in an unhappy relationship and maybe considering getting out of it. You know, we spend, we maybe buy the too big house because we're trying to tell ourselves, well, this will make us happy, or we're trying to project to others like we're fine. I also know several people, my situation included, were people like want to get the wife a bigger diamond ring, bigger wedding band or whatever, something that says, oh, you know, everything is fine. So there's a lot of those, you know, financial decisions, I think, especially when we're not so— we're not happy because we're either trying to make ourselves happier or trying to project that the situation is just fine and, you know, everybody is happy. But I know now deep down in my bones don't need a big house, don't need a lot of those trappings of what looks like success.
Dr. Merideth Thompson [00:09:44]:
And you can have materially a lot less and go, oh man, when I was going through my divorce and things were really icky and things would come up, the phrase I would say literally out loud to myself, hopefully when children weren't home, I was peace and freedom, peace and freedom. And that's what I was working for. Anytime it was like, it's not, it's not about the stuff. It's about getting that peace and freedom. And I've got a lot of it now.
Leah Hadley [00:10:11]:
Oh, good for you. I have to say that's really an interesting insight that you made around people in a relationship that they're not satisfied with investing in things to try to bring that joy. Right. And I see it all the time where people just bought their second home, their vacation home, they got a mortgage on it and now they're going through divorce and it's like, oh man, if we could have just avoided that purchase to begin with, um, it just would have saved so much money. But you're exactly right. I mean, I really see it in so many different ways all the time.
Dr. Merideth Thompson [00:10:41]:
Um, that's really interesting. I think of it as staying in limbo is really expensive. So if I, if I look back, the December before I finally made the divorce decision, my spouse at the time and I took our two boys and our son's girlfriend and we went to France. And where else did we go? We went across the pond for the holidays. So we spent a lot of money on that trip that if we'd just been honest with ourselves, we could have put that in like our legal fees fund or, you know, something else. Right. Because I think, and you can look back at pictures and see how of that trip and see how, you know, there's sadness there. And so, yeah, we can throw a lot of money at a relationship that isn't bringing us joy just because we're are striving so hard to make it, to make it work.
Leah Hadley [00:11:32]:
Yeah. Right, right. So what was most helpful for you as you were navigating the divorce process?
Dr. Merideth Thompson [00:11:40]:
When I look back, I don't know that I realized how impactful it would be at that time, but it was being conscientious and intentional about what down the road would lead to more peace and freedom for me and for my sons.. And I had the relatively unusual situation of I paid alimony. So I made a lot more than my spouse and he wanted alimony. And even though my attorney and the mediator said like, there's no case for alimony here, but we could go to court and spend a lot of money on legal fees. And so I was just like, let's just do this. Doing that, Well, at the end of mediation, my attorney turned to me and shook my hand. He said, "Congratulations." And I'm like, "I think this outcome stinks." Like, I was not happy about it. And he said, "Listen, alimony is the ransom the happy pay to the devil."
Leah Hadley [00:12:37]:
Oh my gosh, I got chills when you said that.
Dr. Merideth Thompson [00:12:39]:
I still get chills when I say it because I'm like, he is so right. Like, I bought my freedom and I bought my peace and freedom to get out of that relationship. And so, you know, it really surprises me even now looking back, you know, doing that, I did not like it, it felt unfair, but the other piece since I really didn't like that, I thought I don't want to send him checks every month, like this is crap, you know, and my therapist at the time said, what if you had— I think I even called it my peace and freedom fund, it was labeled that way, way in my checking account or savings account. So I set up an account and I'm well paid. And so I was able to put extra money each month into that account until it reached what I would be paying in alimony over 5 years. I never had to think about it. It just— checks came out of there and went to him. It wasn't on my radar.
Dr. Merideth Thompson [00:13:32]:
And that— getting it out of my daily, monthly even kind of process was like so freeing. Just don't have to think about it. And so yeah, with that I got, and you know, we co-parented further after that and just really focusing on, okay, what's, what is the decision? What is the action that I can take that is going to bring me the most peace and freedom and the most peace and freedom for my boys? And you know, I think too that has a ripple effect. If I'm happier and especially if they're happier, their dad hopefully also would be happier too. So it, it has that ripple effect.
Leah Hadley [00:14:09]:
Yeah, yeah, I love that reframe. I will tell you, the issues around spousal support, honestly, for both the payer and the recipient are very, very challenging. And when we're working with people through the divorce process, it usually is going to be one of the stickiest issues that we're dealing with. And I had never heard of doing like a peace freedom account. I just think that that's amazing to reframe it that way and to just acknowledge like, hey, this is set aside, right? And it's not impacting your day-to-day. That, that's huge. I mean, that's really like creating that boundary for yourself is really powerful.
Dr. Merideth Thompson [00:14:47]:
Yeah, yeah, it helped my headspace tremendously. And then once I was done paying alimony and child support, um, me and I don't know a dozen of my closest friends, we had a peace and freedom party. And so I invited them over and we celebrated being done. And I said, you know, come and, you know, think if there's anything that you can celebrate that is giving you more peace recently or freedom. And I had one close friend who had just gotten her green card. So she was celebrating that. And so we made it, you know, a positive and uplifting thing and they were fabulous. So yeah, framing makes all the difference in the world.
Leah Hadley [00:15:25]:
Oh, for sure. So if you had to do it again, what would you do differently?
Dr. Merideth Thompson [00:15:32]:
I, if I could do it differently, I would have frankly put more in the parenting plan about, um, around decisions around like travel. And, um, I, I haven't had this issue, but, um, people in my circle, you know, um kind of some sort of agreement about when new partners, boyfriends, girlfriends are introduced to the kids and how that works. Because I've seen some people like seriously rush it, um, and then the part— the, you know, the other parent is blindsided. And like, you know, focusing a lot more and anticipating. I guess I just— I didn't know to anticipate some of those things around parenting that probably would have made things smoother for my sons and, um, brought some more certainty to the situation, at least that we could refer to.
Leah Hadley [00:16:24]:
How old was your son when you guys divorced?
Dr. Merideth Thompson [00:16:27]:
My youngest was 14 and my eldest was 19 and off to college. Okay, so they were older and they could kind of sort of understand. But, um, like a few years later, my, my co-parent had a teaching gig over in China, and I didn't hear about it until the boys came home and were like, oh yeah, we're going to that with Dad to China. I was like, oh, I, I had no idea. And so, you know, just things like that that, um, you know, it's interesting to me if we kind of go at a higher level, the things that didn't work in a long-term relationship or marriage are still the things that are annoying after the relationship is over. So it's, you know, it's annoying, but then you can also say, oh well, at least, you know, they're still that way. It wasn't something necessarily about me, like we got divorced for a reason and that reason is still applicable.
Leah Hadley [00:17:24]:
Yeah, sometimes it's a good reminder, right?
Dr. Merideth Thompson [00:17:26]:
Oh yes, oh yes, totally. It's like, oh yeah, that's what I escaped from. Good job, Meredith. That's what I kind of do. But yeah, I would have thought— I think I was so— our divorce process was super, super quick, and looking back, maybe too quick. But I was just— I tried to leave before and then backtracked, and I did not— I know that that was not good for anybody. And so, yeah, I would have slowed things down and said, okay, let's anticipate what is the next— what are the milestones like in my children's life, and how can we build some structure in the parenting plan about that?
Leah Hadley [00:18:05]:
Yeah, I think the parenting plan is so hard. Kids change, things change, schools change, like so much changes in their lives that, um, you know, I think most attorneys I see, you know, do, do a pretty good job when it comes to the parenting plans, but you just can't anticipate everything, you know. I mean, even when I look at my 3 kids they're so different from one another and they have different needs and different things have come up in their lives that we've had to deal with, right? And so I think the parenting plan is pretty challenging because you're, you're at a moment in time trying to, you know, figure this all out. And honestly, it wouldn't be a bad idea for everybody to sit down and do a parenting plan, just have it all like talked through and documented and all of that. Um, but then also the, the process for making adjustments to that is so important because we just have to acknowledge that this— we're talking about human beings, you know, and that there's going to be things that come up that just don't get addressed. Now, I have to say, going to China like that, that, that's a new one for me. That's definitely a new one for me. But it was something— yeah, it was something I was very keenly aware of because my ex-husband was not from the United States.
Leah Hadley [00:19:22]:
And so I— that was something that I was very keyed into when we were negotiating our parenting plan. But if it's not on your mind, Why would you even think about it?
Dr. Merideth Thompson [00:19:30]:
Right? Nope. Nope. Yeah. And I think that's probably what trips a lot of people up is just, it's the things that you don't even think about. It's like, it's not on your radar. And that's why I think your podcast here with Intentional Divorce Insights is so like, you're putting issues on potential divorcees' radar that they wouldn't think about. And that's so important. Like if we don't have an awareness of something, nothing can change.
Dr. Merideth Thompson [00:19:55]:
Just raising that awareness is super impactful.
Leah Hadley [00:20:02]:
Yeah, absolutely. So now, if you had a friend who was going through a divorce, what would you tell them today?
Dr. Merideth Thompson [00:20:12]:
I think, well, I actually have several friends in my orbit that are kind of contemplating and have been for a while, and they have kids, and each situation kind of has their own complexity. And I think what I would tell each of them is when I think we a lot of times will make, I don't know if it's excuses, but we hold on to hope for too long. Like, it's like, well, I hope things will get better. I hope if I do this, maybe my partner will do that, or, you know, we're putting a lot of effort in and hope that the marriage or the relationship will improve and become happier and healthier. And I think we— it's hard to clock and to accept when our hope has shifted to wishing. And so like really paying attention, you know, there's— everybody has a certain capacity for change. And I think sometimes that shifts in a relationship or depending on that relationship. And so it's like, You know, pay attention to what your partner says versus what they do, because I think, and you know, you too, like, do you say you're gonna, you know, um, make more time for a date night each week, but then you don't really? And so paying attention to what the other partner actually does and not so much to what they say, and looking at your and the partner's capacity for change.
Dr. Merideth Thompson [00:21:39]:
And when you start to recognize, yeah, there's not a lot of capacity for that change here, then life is short, you know. If I could get back the 10 or 12 years that I stayed too long, you know, I'd mostly do it for my boys so they wouldn't learn bad dynamics, but too, I mean, like, life is precious. I'm 52 and I'm like, I don't know how many years I have left, but, but they're numbered, and so, you know, you just don't want to stay too long. Life is too short for that, and our relationships are what drive our health long-term. So if you're a 30 or 40-something in an unhappy, unhealthy relationship, you are taking years off your life. That the research is very, very clear on that. And so don't be afraid to act.
Leah Hadley [00:22:26]:
I get that. I have to say, in doing this work, I have really been amazed. I mean, I'm not somebody who's done a lot of research into medical healthcare on how the body interacts with stress or anything like that. But just as a practitioner witnessing people going through this major life transition, I have just been really amazed at the toll a toxic marriage takes on your health. I mean, and the, the changes that I see in some of the clients that I work with once they've gotten out of that situation. It blows my mind.
Dr. Merideth Thompson [00:23:05]:
I would give you a good guess. Yes. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. Well, yes, being in a distressed marriage or things like that, it leads to higher risk of mortality, higher blood pressure, cardiovascular disease. There's all kinds of things. And so I think a lot of people actually aren't aware or maybe avoid acknowledging the impact that it's having
Dr. Merideth Thompson [00:23:28]:
on their health, not just their mental health and emotional health, but their physical health as well.
Leah Hadley [00:23:34]:
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So, Merideth, tell us a little bit about PartnerLab and kind of how you work with people now.
Dr. Merideth Thompson [00:23:41]:
Sure. So PartnerLab was developed to help my prior self and the people that I know who are kind of stuck in that kind of one foot in, one foot out of the relationship. Like they're asking is this relationship fixable or is this like a deal breaker issue? And so since my core anchor job is as a researcher, I dive into the relationship science to figure out like what really drives health and happiness. What do the deal breakers look like? And so right now, PartnerLab is focused on people who are kind of stuck in that limbo, like, like maybe they're thinking about getting out but they're not sure. And like, you know, the biggest hurdle a lot of times for people in making that decision is kids. And so also educating people that, you know, if you're in a high-conflict relationship, research over and over again shows that it's better to divorce. And I think too, like, stepping back, you know, that was one of my moments of clarity, is thinking as my children watched and heard how their father and I interacted, like what they're learning. Because that's the guilt that stays with me, and I wish I had acted sooner.
Dr. Merideth Thompson [00:24:58]:
And so all of our tools are focused on helping people get clarity about the relationship. Whether it's certain aspects of the relationship or specifically, like, you know, maybe they're in a good relationship, but they're like, I think it could be better. I feel like over here things are a little off, but I'm not sure exactly what, because it's really hard to put your finger on sometimes what's off in a relationship. And so helping people get clarity about that. And you know, I will say I stayed in limbo for 10 to 12 years. And so our most, powerful tool is a 7-week or a 7-workshop program that walks people through it. So like if they're in limbo, they're like, I think I want to leave. But then you're like, you know, there's that voice that says, what about the children? Or what about finances? Or, you know, these things that come up and you're just like, no, but staying in limbo has a cost, emotional, financial, all of these things. And so, um, helping people walk through all that so that they can cross the T's and dot the I's.
Dr. Merideth Thompson [00:26:02]:
Or like, if I've made the decision to go, I've done I've done all the homework and I can do this with confidence. Because a lot of times, you know, we tend to think courage comes before clarity. I tend to think it's the opposite. Like, until you have that clarity, you cannot take that step. And so Clarity Circle really is designed to help people get that clarity before you go see a super expensive, you know, divorce attorney for a consult. You know, I have people in my circle who have gone for that consult and it doesn't necessarily help them get that clarity because an attorney can't really tell you, right, you know, whether you should stay or go. But, um, so that's, that's what we've been working on and, um, continually fine-tuning those tools.
Leah Hadley [00:26:45]:
Excellent. And as part of that, you do have a free resource available for our listeners. Tell us a little bit about that.
Dr. Merideth Thompson [00:26:51]:
So, the free resource is what we call the Clarity Matrix. It's a starter guide, and it's kind of like a high-level look at what we do in the Clarity Circle. And it focuses on— I love visuals because I'm a pointy-headed academic, and so I like 2x2s. So this is basically an introduction to this tool, and how to think about what's going well versus not so well in your relationship, where you have control and where you don't have control. Like, we cannot control our partners. Maybe we'd like to, you know, with a remote or whatever it is, and then looking at where that's helpful and where that's harmful. Getting clarity on what are your deal-breakers.
Dr. Merideth Thompson [00:27:33]:
There's some deal-breakers I would say that should be across the board: abuse or controlling or coercive behaviors or a lack of trust. It's really hard if that's kind of a pattern in your relationship. It's hard to see a healthy, happy relationship if those are present. Then, understanding your own expectations What do I want? What do I want? What do I need in this relationship? And then helping them figure out not only what those are, but communicating that to their partner in ways that hopefully the partner can meet those needs. It may not be exactly in the way that the user wants, but if that fundamental underlying need is getting met, and then reciprocating with their partner, like, here's my needs and expectations, what are yours? Let's figure them out together. And then switching over to helping them get more peace and freedom as they figure out, like, do I stay or do I go? And then connecting them with resources depending on their decision, because, you know, decision is a big hairy thing and it's scary. But getting that clarity is, you know, it's— you can't get confidence and you can't get courage without the clarity first.
Leah Hadley [00:28:43]:
Absolutely. Well, this has been so helpful. I have no doubt that our audience is really going to benefit from this conversation. I'm going to include a link in the show notes to the resource that Meredith was just talking about, as well as where you can find her so you can get more information about the work that she does. That's so important. Thank you so much for joining us and sharing your insights with us today.
Dr. Merideth Thompson [00:29:04]:
Thank you, Leah. This has been an absolute treat, and thank you so much for the work you do.
Leah Hadley [00:29:10]:
Oh, it is definitely my pleasure and my calling. Thank you for being here, and we will see you next week.
Leah Hadley [00:29:17]:
Thank you for joining me on Intentional Divorce Insights. It's a privilege to share this time with you. I hope each episode offers valuable guidance to navigate your journey. If you find our content helpful, please leave a review to help others discover the benefits of intentional decision-making in divorce. Until next time, take care and continue to embrace your path with intention.
