Leah Hadley [00:00:01]:
Welcome to Intentional Divorce Insights. I'm Leah Hadley, Certified Divorce Financial Analyst, Accredited Financial Counselor, and the founder of Intentional Divorce Solutions. I'll be your guide through the complexities of divorce, finance, and emotional wellness. Join me as we uncover practical tips and empowering insights to help you navigate your divorce with clarity and intention.
Leah Hadley [00:00:24]:
Welcome back to Intentional Divorce Insights. I am so happy that you are here with us today. We have a fantastic guest today. With over 40 years of experience as a registered respiratory therapist, Lisa has transitioned into a new calling as a certified grief educator. Her career shift was born from deep personal experience, years of working closely with patients and their families facing end-of-life decisions, combined with navigating her own profound losses, including family deaths and divorce. These experiences opened her eyes to the emotional turmoil that that accompanies life-altering events and ignited a passionate desire to support others during their darkest times. She now helps people navigating the complicated journey of grief find solace and understanding in the midst of their pain. Thank you so much for being here with us, Lisa.
Leah Hadley [00:01:16]:
I really appreciate it.
Lisa Rites [00:01:17]:
Oh, thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here.
Leah Hadley [00:01:20]:
Absolutely. So Lisa, I know we're going to talk about grief and divorce, but I'm wondering how much of your own story you'd be willing to share with us.
Lisa Rites [00:01:29]:
Um, sure, I'll share any part of it that you want to hear. But basically, I got into, um, becoming a certified grief educator, as you had stated, between 40 years— over 40 years as a respiratory therapist dealing with death, um, and dealing with the families of death. Um, just a very compassionate person. I just realized when I got closer to retiring, I wanted to continue doing something with um, you know, to help people. So I did find becoming a grief-certified educator was the way to go. And having gone through family deaths— my own mom just passed in March— and going through my own divorce really shifted me and taught me about grief. And not realizing how big a part of grief is when you go through a divorce. A lot of people don't put that together.
Leah Hadley [00:02:23]:
You're exactly right, and that's why I'm so glad that we are having this conversation. It's one of the things that I often talk to people about is the various kind of stages that they may, may go through. But a lot of times people, even if they do recognize the grief, they may think that it's a linear process. And any of us who have, have been in that space know that it's anything but a linear process.
Lisa Rites [00:02:44]:
Absolutely, absolutely. And it still continues today. I mean Yeah, for sure. Yeah.
Leah Hadley [00:02:52]:
So can you tell us a little bit about the stages of grief and kind of what you went through in your own divorce?
Lisa Rites [00:02:57]:
Sure. So I went through my divorce, and until I became a grief educator, didn't realize what I had gone through. So I did write a book about my stages of grief, trying to help people through that. And then it does tell my own story. So basically, yeah, so like being in the first stages of grief with The denial obviously came when I first found out about my husband. He had had an affair, and finding that out and kind of the shock and denial of that, you know, the first few months of that period in time, I did what everybody probably tries to do, and that was bargain my way back and try to come up with a way to get myself back into the life I thought I was supposed to be a part of. And then, you know, moving on and trying to rediscover myself and trying to get through going back out again and trying to find myself again because I had become a different person when I got married. And then to find myself alone with 4 children became very difficult.
Lisa Rites [00:04:07]:
There was a very big anger area, which is a huge part of grief, and there are still times when I get angry, but getting past that stage and realizing at some point, which I'm sure we'll talk about, but realizing at some point towards the end that, um, I just didn't want to be angry for the rest of my life. It just wasn't worth it for me. I've worked with, with people who are going through divorces or divorced, and the anger just never stops. And it just wasn't good for myself and my health. So I realized at that point I didn't want to be angry. Kind of started to put our feelings aside, realizing that, um, the reality was he really wasn't leaving his children or his family. He was leaving me, you know. So once I got to able to work through that, we, we were able to communicate, and it really turned out to be the best.
Lisa Rites [00:05:02]:
We co-parented the rest, and we still co-parent. Um, our kids have had weddings and children, and we are always at functions together. We're very civil. Which is really nice. And my kids think we're crazy, you know, but honestly, I just think for them, it just really worked out better because they don't see two people that hate each other for the rest of their lives. They don't see two people still fighting, you know. So for me, it worked. And that's really what my book talks about, is being able to get some inner peace.
Lisa Rites [00:05:37]:
And even if you can't stay friends, You need to find some inner peace for yourself, especially when you're going through a divorce.
Leah Hadley [00:05:44]:
Absolutely. That's so powerful. And I often share different but similar story of my own where, you know, my ex-husband and I, that very first year after divorce, it was just the worst, right? We just— we didn't have a good system in place. We were angry with each other. We hadn't resolved a lot of things. And our kids were young at the time. They were going back and forth between our homes. And it was just— it was so much stress.
Leah Hadley [00:06:11]:
And I, I I still remember the day that he and I sat down and we're like, you know what, we can't live like this. Like, this isn't doing anybody any good, right? Um, but sometimes it's hard. It's hard to acknowledge. And especially, I think, as women, we are taught not to, to be angry, not to share our anger, right?
Lisa Rites [00:06:29]:
Right.
Leah Hadley [00:06:29]:
Um, and so, so often we're kind of like pushing it down and not dealing with it. But there's so much value in the awareness of it, right? And being able to make the choice to say, like, I don't want to sit in this space.
Lisa Rites [00:06:42]:
Right. And, and that's one of the things I found becoming a grief educator is that lack of education, um, around grief, no matter what kind of grief it is. Um, and it's the same stages no matter what you're dealing with, whether it's death of a child, death of a pet, death of a parent, a divorce, a relationship breakup, um, loss of a job. There's so many things that we grieve, just society today. That we grieve, um, you know. And I, it's— I love to educate about that and just get it out there that it's okay to be aware of these things, and it is okay to feel the way you are because it's normal, you know. Um, I know growing up, and so many clients that I talk to, we were just taught to, like you're saying, suppress. You just— you, you grieved, somebody passed, okay, that's it, I got to be normal now.
Lisa Rites [00:07:32]:
Everybody tells me I have to be okay now. And, and you're not. And then you go home and you're crying or you're upset or you're angry and you don't understand why, because you're not supposed to be, right? But it's all okay to be like that. So, um, that's one of the things I like to educate around and just let people understand that whatever you're feeling is fine. Yeah, that's probably important.
Leah Hadley [00:07:57]:
Yeah, absolutely. I even think, you know, I went through my divorce 10 years ago, so it has been— it's been a while and, you know, kind of moved through that. But I just lost my mom this year as well. And it was a very good reminder of me, just, you know, because I am working with so many people going through a divorce, how completely overwhelming grief can be, right? It can consume all of your brain capacity, really, like not even being able to kind of think or make decisions. It really can be all-consuming.
Lisa Rites [00:08:26]:
It really is. It really is. And, you know, especially in a breakup situation, you know, today, in today's society, people break up that have children, maybe never married, but it's still the same. It's still a relationship that's breaking, and it's not normal, and it's not what we signed up for, right? We sign up to be with somebody forever and live that happy life that everybody lives, but sometimes it just doesn't work that way, you know? And we try to make the best of it, but like you're saying, um, you know, even when my kids were small— also, my divorce was, uh, almost 20 years now, um, but my kids were from middle of high school to grammar school. They were very young. And again, that first year was brutal. Yeah, you know, the hatred that came out of me. And of course, I don't feel that he had as much hate because he was the one who left, right? So, so always in that relationship, somebody's not going to have the same hate as the other person.
Lisa Rites [00:09:26]:
But I do talk about my book, there were days I would text him in the morning and I'm like, I'm having an I hate you day today. Don't talk to me, don't reach out to me, you know, and he would chuckle, kind of like, you know, in a— not in a bad way, but just like, okay, no problem, you know, I won't talk to you today. But you know what, that's just the day I was having.
Leah Hadley [00:09:45]:
But you know, I love that. And I've never done that specifically, um, with my ex-husband. But you know, I'm remarried now, and if I'm having a really bad day, I will communicate that to him, right? Because you don't necessarily want that other person to be on the receiving end of whatever's, you know, triggering or what have you. But I think that's amazing that you're able— you're— we're able to say that to your ex-husband and just own that, right? Like, that's where I'm at right now.
Lisa Rites [00:10:10]:
That's where I'm at. I mean, yeah, that's what it was and that's where I was. And, um, yeah, I think getting those feelings out and just, just talking about that really helps, you know. Um, and I— and part of me, I think, you know, when he first left, um, not that I was spiteful, but of course I was feeling spiteful. It was part of it, you know. And I was thinking, well, you're never going to see your children again, you're leaving this family, you know. Oh, you're walking away. But you know what, as time went on, I just realized time he did spend with them was, was good for them, but it was good for me too because I got time to myself.
Lisa Rites [00:10:46]:
Yeah, you know, and, and I started to realize that, oh, I need this me time, you know. I'm not going to try to be that hero that's like, nope, I'm going to take care of my kids, I've got my kids, I've got this, you know. And, um, women especially, we take on that role And, you know, we just— we become where we're just going to do it all. But people have to realize you need to give yourself some grace and you need to have some time to yourself. That's okay too.
Leah Hadley [00:11:13]:
Absolutely. We just, uh, actually recorded an episode of this podcast, so it'll probably be out before this one is, uh, that was all about the positive things, like the silver lining of a divorce. And that is one that a lot of people don't really think about, right? But when you have time and space to fill up your own cup to take care of yourself, you're just in a better position to be like participating with your kids in a way that's different than when you're trying to do all the things and you don't have time to kind of refuel, right?
Lisa Rites [00:11:43]:
Right, exactly, exactly. Um, and I, and I do talk about that part too, where that realization of, oh, I need to be here for my kids now, like, and you're not thinking about what they're going through because we're not thinking that they have feelings, you know, we're just so angry and One thing my ex and I didn't do was talk about each other in front of our kids a lot. Like, if we had to have conversations, we waited till they left the house, then him and I would have a conversation, argument, whatever it was going to be at that time, you know, but try to never do that in front of our kids. And I always felt co-parenting— again, we have 4, and they were at growing ages, you know, so we needed to be able to co-parent, we needed to be able to make rules. And know that when mom made the rule or dad made the rule, neither one of us was going to cave on that. Because how many times do we see in divorce, well, I'll go ask dad, or I'll go ask mom, right? But if the parents can do their best to get past some of the stuff they have to get past, it's for the sake of the children to help them and know that, you know what, oh gosh, they're still being parents, they're still going to work together. You know, it is really important. I felt for us.
Lisa Rites [00:12:58]:
And again, like I said, you know, I was just at his wedding a year ago, so, you know, and it was great. I had a ball. Him and I even danced. It was just kind of funny. There were some people there that were at our first wedding. So, you know, whatever. Yeah, good for you. Yeah, I can't change it.
Lisa Rites [00:13:16]:
I was awkward at first. I was like, oh, I don't know if I want to go. And when he asked me, I was like, oh, you know, I think the kids are going to be uncomfortable. He's like, no, I already asked them. They all said fine. You know, so, okay, so we went and, you know, we, we had a great time. And not everybody can say they can do that, right? Um, you know, but I try to encourage people to, like you said, start to look for that silver lining. If anything, you need to find inner peace for yourself.
Leah Hadley [00:13:43]:
Absolutely.
Lisa Rites [00:13:44]:
And I understand that. I understand that hate. Believe me, I, I had it. I'm sure you had it. I, I know what that hate feels like, but it is just not worth it. To be angry for the rest of your life.
Leah Hadley [00:13:55]:
Nobody wants to live like that. Absolutely not. Um, would you say the hatred was kind of the biggest challenge that you faced during the grieving process, or was there anything else that you would point to?
Lisa Rites [00:14:05]:
No, I think anger was probably the biggest thing, and anger is the one thing I kept going back to.
Leah Hadley [00:14:10]:
Okay.
Lisa Rites [00:14:11]:
And I do, you know, with the stages of grief, when I'm working with clients, I always tell them it— to me, it's like a ladder, right? So you get— you move a stage, you move a stage, and you might fall back. And that's okay. And, you know, you might get past anger and get to, you know, where you're starting to rediscover yourself, but you might fall back and get angry again. And it's okay because it's going to happen, you know. And I've gotten to the acceptance stage. I'm way past the acceptance stage. But there are some things sometimes that still make me angry when he does something or he'll say something or, you know, something will come up, you know. But obviously we're many years out now, so things have gotten a lot better.
Lisa Rites [00:14:49]:
But yeah, I think I would have to say from day one, you know, till getting close to the acceptance stage, anger was probably the biggest thing I went through.
Leah Hadley [00:14:59]:
So what did the acceptance stage look like for you?
Lisa Rites [00:15:02]:
The acceptance stage was when I took— I took the realization that I was part of the problem. And I think that's really hard for people to do. Um, but obviously there was a reason for the split. There was a reason he drifted. There was a, you know, whatever it was. Um, but I probably wasn't making it any better, and there was something I obviously did that made him drift off, right? So I have to accept responsibility for part of this. It wasn't perfect. I didn't want it.
Lisa Rites [00:15:38]:
But looking back now, it's probably the best thing that happened. But, you know, going through it, I wouldn't have said that. But I think acceptance for me started when I was able to take some responsibility for the fact that we were no longer married. And then from there, once I could accept a little bit of that, and I started to look back at the person that he was as a person, the person that I liked about him, and I always tried to remember those things. And there are some really great things about him, you know, and to this day there still are. And I can, I can still look at that, and that's the part I just try to hold on to. And again, just then trying to find myself again and move on into that way. That, that for me was the start of my acceptance.
Lisa Rites [00:16:27]:
It was like, okay, look, it's not going to change. He was still with the person at the time. That was not going to change. He wasn't coming back. I was part of the issue. He wasn't coming back because I obviously was still part of the issue. So let's figure this out and get past you know. Um, so that's what the start of the acceptance looked like for me, and it may look different for other people.
Leah Hadley [00:16:50]:
But sure, you mentioned kind of finding yourself again, and I think a lot of people find themselves in that position of really kind of figuring out who they are as an individual rather than as a couple. Can you tell me a little bit about that process for yourself?
Lisa Rites [00:17:06]:
Sure. So, um, before I was married, I did a lot of crafting I read a lot. Um, there were a lot of hobbies that I had, music, stuff like that. And I got married, and that's what I wanted to do. And we had 4 kids, and I was raising my children. So obviously some of myself got pushed by the wayside to take care of my family, and that was totally fine. That's what I wanted to do. That's where I was at that stage of my life.
Lisa Rites [00:17:32]:
I would never ever say, oh geez, I wish I had gone back. No, I, I moved forward and into a different role. In my life. But once he left and I was now alone, and I, you know, started to figure out I needed to go out again, or I needed to start to do things, I did pick up a book and I did start to craft, and I started going out with my friends. Um, and, you know, some, some nights were rough, some nights were, were easy, but that's how I started to rediscover myself again and grab back the old Lisa that was back there that hadn't come out because she was busy doing something else. But now, you know, I had time to do some extra things for myself because we weren't always out as a couple. Um, I think one of the hardest things in the beginning was being invited places and having to go alone. That was really difficult for me.
Lisa Rites [00:18:24]:
But, um, I wouldn't want to go out and eat by myself, or I did, you know, things like that I just didn't want to do. And obviously you have couple friends which makes it difficult. But I truly found out who my truest friends were when I went through this process, as I'm sure you did too. Um, you definitely find out who your friends really are, and those are the ones I stuck with. And, you know, and then I just started to, you know, just started to do things that I like to do before. It was like, you know, I can do these things again now and, you know, and still raise my kids and still be the mom Sure, absolutely.
Leah Hadley [00:18:59]:
So, Lisa, at what point were you inspired to write your book?
Lisa Rites [00:19:03]:
Um, well, it's been a long time since we were divorced, um, and again, once I got through becoming a grief educator and going through in my mind some of the stuff that I realized probably had gone through for me, um, my, my family— we were talking, and my family thinks we're so crazy, my ex and I, because we get along so well. And, you know, they're always like, you guys are so crazy. And now when we look at pictures pictures and we talk about things. It's pre-divorce, post-divorce is how they look at things now. And they're looking at pictures, oh, look at Mom here, this was pre-divorce, you know, like this. They make fun of it. And I just thought, you know what, I, I have such a good positive message to share that a lot of times, um, people just don't have it. So I just thought, you know what, let me sit down, put this together and see where it takes me.
Lisa Rites [00:19:51]:
And, um, you know, it was able to take me to this book. And if it helps a few people that's great. You know, there's— there— the book is my journey, but it is also all the stages of grief, and it is grief and divorce. So there's a lot of learning. And then I have journaling pages and questions that people are able to ask themselves to help them. And again, at the end, I do, you know, stress that if you can't be as friendly with your ex as, you know, mine turned out to be, at least find something for yourself, some inner peace, and try to move forward and like you said, get to that acceptance stage and, you know, figure out what's going to be next for you. Because you don't have to stay, you know, in, in, in a stuck, in a position where you don't want to be. You can definitely move forward.
Leah Hadley [00:20:39]:
Absolutely. I don't know if you mentioned the name of the book, Lisa. What was the name of the book?
Lisa Rites [00:20:44]:
Um, it's called Navigating Grief and Divorce, and it's my journey through, um, through divorce and keeping family bonds strong.
Leah Hadley [00:20:53]:
Excellent. So we will be sure to include that in the show notes. And where can people buy that? Is that—
Lisa Rites [00:20:58]:
it's on my website. It's also on Amazon, Barnes Noble.
Leah Hadley [00:21:03]:
Excellent. Okay, so we'll be sure to include links for that. And if somebody is interested in learning more about you or working with you, where can they find more information about you, Lisa?
Lisa Rites [00:21:11]:
The best is to go to my website, lisaritesgrief.com, and anything you could possibly need is there. My links to social media are there. You can just follow me on Facebook and/or YouTube and you know, just, just follow along, that's fine. But any information, there's also free resources on that website if people want to take, grab some free resources and print them out and use them. They're also there. Fantastic.
Leah Hadley [00:21:37]:
So we'll be sure to include a link to her website as well. Lisa, I just want to thank you for sharing your time with us, sharing your experience with us. I really appreciate you being with us.
Lisa Rites [00:21:46]:
It was great. Thank you so much for having me.
Leah Hadley [00:21:48]:
Oh, my pleasure. And for our audience, thank you for listening and we will see you next week.
Leah Hadley [00:21:54]:
Thank you for joining me on Intentional Divorce Insights. It's a privilege to share this time with you. I hope each episode offers valuable guidance to navigate your journey. If you find our content helpful, please leave a review to help others discover the benefits of intentional decision-making in divorce. Until next time, take care and continue to embrace your path with intention.
