Leah Hadley [00:00:01]:
Welcome to Intentional Divorce Insights. I'm Leah Hadley, certified divorce financial analyst, accredited financial counselor and the founder of Intentional Divorce Solutions. I'll be your guide through the complexities of divorce, finance and emotional wellness. Join me as we uncover practical tips and empowering insights to help you navigate your divorce with clarity and intention. Hi there and welcome back to Intentional Divorce Insights. I'm so happy that you're here with us today. We're diving into an important topic topic today that I think is going to resonate with a lot of you. But first, let me introduce our guest.
Leah Hadley [00:00:38]:
This is Johnny Woods. Not Joanie. I made that mistake too. So if you were reading this and you pronounce it Joanie, you're not. You're not alone. But this is Johnny Woods. She is a certified life coach and cultural strategist with over 15 years of experience helping individuals, couples and organizations strengthen communication, resolve conflict and lead with emotional intelligence.
Leah Hadley [00:01:00]:
She is the founder of Journey Coaching where she specializes in guiding clients through personal growth, relational healing and values based leadership. Joni empowers people to develop self awareness, establish healthy boundaries and build emotionally safe connections in life, love and the workplace. Whether working with individuals, families, or Fortune 500 executives, her mission is to foster clarity, compassion and connection in every every interaction. Welcome, Johnny. Thanks for being with us.
Joni Woods [00:01:31]:
Thank you. It's been a long time since someone actually read the whole bio.
Leah Hadley [00:01:37]:
So talk to us a little bit about your story and how you got into the work that you're doing.
Joni Woods [00:01:42]:
So I have been, like they said, 15 years of experience. I was a youth and young adult pastor, so I spent a lot of time working with families in that particular space. And then after my divorce in 2016, obviously the church doesn't really want you to be a pastor anymore. And I just was trying to figure out ways to keep helping people, keep conversations moving. Especially because after the divorce, what I didn't realize was there were so many broken people out there, so many people that were hurting in their marriages. And it took for me to actually admit that my marriage sucked before I figured out that actually there's a lot of people that are suffering in their relationships. And because of that, I became a coach. And in that space, I would meet people and they, they'd want to talk about their relationship.
Joni Woods [00:02:37]:
And then at that point I was like, well, you need therapy. You guys need to go to couples counseling. I am, yeah. I'm not trained or qualified to help you in this particular area. And so I wanted to figure out how to help people still. And so I moved into the corporate space and try to help people recognize and build their own emotional intelligence. How they're reflecting on the stuff going on in their lives, how they're bringing it into the workplace, how they're taking workplace drama home with them. You know, all that kind of stuff that really breaks relationships apart.
Joni Woods [00:03:13]:
So that's how I got there.
Leah Hadley [00:03:15]:
That's fascinating. And you don't hear very often where people are saying they want to help people. So they went to the corporate space.
Joni Woods [00:03:25]:
Yeah. I was like, well, because relationships are everywhere. So if you don't know. Absolutely. Yeah. If you don't figure out how to work with your coworker or your boss or, you know, an employee that's underneath you, if you don't know how to do that, you don't know how to help. Conflicts in your home life or with your parents or with your kids, with your siblings, with your best friends. You know, all of those relationships, they're so intertwined, and it comes down to a single person you like.
Joni Woods [00:03:51]:
How do you handle all of these relationships? And what are you doing to build them or what are you bringing in that's tearing them down? It's just, you know, a lot of work.
Leah Hadley [00:04:03]:
Absolutely. And it's important work. And I'm really looking forward to diving into this topic that we're talking about today, Johnny. We're talking all about protecting the decision. If you made the decision to divorce. And here's the thing that I've witnessed in my work, is that it takes years, years of somebody thinking about whether or not they want to move forward and terminate the marriage. It is a big decision. A lot of energy goes into it.
Leah Hadley [00:04:33]:
A lot of people do go through couples counseling and do a lot of work on their relationship to try to avoid it. And then ultimately, when people do finally make this decision and they start to share it with people, they get everybody's opinion on the matter. And it can be a really hard road for a lot of people who have already been on this very long journey in deciding that this is the path forward. So, anyway, I just think this is such an important topic, so I'm glad we're talking about it. Thank you for bringing it to the forefront. Johnny, tell me what helped you find clarity in your decision to divorce, and how can others kind of anchor themselves when that doubt arises?
Joni Woods [00:05:15]:
Actually, I have a whole chapter in my book called the Anchor. It's specifically of that. But for me, what ended up happening was we were. We were in marriage counseling. We're married 15 years. We were in counseling for eight of those. 15. So more time was spent in counseling than it was actually fixing this.
Joni Woods [00:05:34]:
And the last counseling session that we had, my ex husband looked at our therapist and said, 100% of the problems in our relationship is Johnny's fault. She looked at him and she was like, really? He's like, yeah, a hundred percent, yeah. She's like, really? And he said, okay, well, maybe like 99.9. And I was just like, you know, at that point it was there. And. And what was hard is she ended up emailing me and she said, I just don't think I can help you anymore, you guys. She said, he's clearly not willing to accept any kind of responsibility. She said, I'm willing to work with you.
Joni Woods [00:06:14]:
Whatever you'd like to do, I'll support you. So to have that validation that I've spent eight years trying to fix me, because you're the one constantly telling me I need to be fixed. And we're still. We're still at square one. I mean, for me, I was like, okay, that was. That was number one. But I always tell everyone, when it comes to divorce or ending a relationship, it was like the straw that broke the camel's back. The straw, you know, the.
Joni Woods [00:06:40]:
The ax that stabbed the camel. I mean, you're constantly trying to, like, give validation and reasons. So that was the big one. That was where I was like, okay, something needs to change. And then I just started looking at what was separating us in our. In our relationship. And as youth and young adult pastors, obviously you don't spend a lot of time drinking, but he was becoming an alcoholic. And, you know, to the point where for three weeks, I saved all of his big vodka containers.
Joni Woods [00:07:11]:
And for, you know, three weeks, that would be. How many days is that? 20.
Leah Hadley [00:07:17]:
21 days.
Joni Woods [00:07:18]:
21 days. 21 days. I had saved 20 bottles. He was going through that much. And I need. I knew I needed support. And so what I did is I saved them all. And I drove around to his entire family, and I was like, all right, I need you to see what I'm going through.
Joni Woods [00:07:35]:
I need you to see that this is a problem. And he still managed to convince them that it was my fault. And so, like, just all of those little things that ended up happening, you know, I just. I was able to anchor down, like, I'm not going to win this battle. I'm not going to win this battle. And then the last thing that did it for me was after I put the papers in, I was cleaning a house, and everyone knew kind of As a youth, young adult pastor, someone looked at me and they said, well, you know, God hates divorce. And just in that moment, I just felt it in my heart that I was like, yeah, but God loves me, so I'm good. Thank you.
Leah Hadley [00:08:16]:
I got chills when you said that, Johnny. That's such a beautiful way to think about it, right?
Joni Woods [00:08:21]:
Yeah, yeah. Like, it's like, sure, yeah. He hates a lot of acts, but he still loves me. So. So that was it. That's where I anchored. And it was nice because I just, I kept looking for more anchors, you know, more things that just was like, okay, if someone' going to say this to me, someone's going to say that to me. There was a sermon that I was listening to and he was talking about how this, his assistant kept going back to this boyfriend who had like, was terrible for her.
Joni Woods [00:08:52]:
She. They all tried to like, help her see the light and they pulled out a proverbs that said the dog does not return to its vomit. I was like, yes, I needed that one too, you know. You know, as people would try to, you know, you need to stay for the kids or whatever. I'm like, are you really trying to convince me to go back to the vomit? Because that's not gonna happen.
Leah Hadley [00:09:17]:
What a great image. That one sticks with you.
Joni Woods [00:09:23]:
Yeah.
Leah Hadley [00:09:24]:
So, Johnny, when someone is faced with all of this pressure and outside judgment from others, which is very common. So if you are somebody who is experiencing that, know that you are absolutely not alone. But Johnny, what can somebody do to protect that decision?
Joni Woods [00:09:43]:
I think that they just need, you know, one the anchors. But I just kept having to remind myself, whenever anyone would say something, I would just have to remind myself, you're not in my shoes. Like, you're just not. My shoes don't fit, you know, you. You don't fit my shoes. You don't know the situation. And I don't have to validate. I think that was the big thing too, as I was like, I don't have to validate.
Joni Woods [00:10:10]:
I don't have give you an explanation. I don't need your approval. Because at this point, and what. Even with even my kids, because my kids, you know, they took it a little bit hard. They were a little bit younger. And I just, I kept telling my kids, I said, I want you to have two happy homes. That's all. That is the only reason that this decision is being made.
Joni Woods [00:10:30]:
Because right now we're in one home and it's miserable. So we are going to have two happy homes. That is my promise to you and they never. I mean, it took an initial hit, but then after that we were, we were good.
Leah Hadley [00:10:46]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Joni Woods [00:10:48]:
So I think, I think. Oh, sorry. I was gonna say, I think anchoring down on why you're doing it. And for me it was the two happy homes.
Leah Hadley [00:10:57]:
Yeah, I like that idea of two happy homes. And just kind of reiterating that. I know that when my kids were really young, you know, it was a, it was a different dynamic. So, you know, my ex husband and I fought a lot before we went through our divorce and then the kids were young when we went through our divorce, so we didn't talk a lot about kind of like my relationship with their dad or anything like that. But now my kids are much older and so we talk about these things, what their experience was and all of that. And one of the things that they've said to me over the years more than once is that they recognized how much happier I was after that relationship was terminated. And because we actually have a much better friendship now that we are divorced, we co parent well together. It took a lot of work in getting there, but I just so appreciate the kids acknowledging the fact that like, you know what, things were not great before we got divorced.
Leah Hadley [00:11:50]:
We made a decision as a family to restructure and things got a lot better. And that can happen and that's okay.
Joni Woods [00:11:56]:
Yeah, I agree. I agree.
Leah Hadley [00:11:58]:
Yeah. So how does somebody build self trust and kind of set those strong boundaries when their decision is being questioned or criticized?
Joni Woods [00:12:08]:
Oh, that's a, that is a good question. It. I guess to build that self trust is the way that you'd build trust with anything you do. A little by little by little, little bit by little bit. But in doing so, you recognize, okay, maybe I didn't make the best decision here, so I'm going to change it next time, you know, recognizing that. Okay, maybe I didn't handle that situation all the way, you know, as through the divorce. I'm talking through the divorce process, you know, and people will, they will amplify your mistakes so much, especially during a divorce. They'll be like, well, see, you just did that.
Joni Woods [00:12:53]:
And I'm like, oh my. No, I didn't. Like, sure. You know, I may have popped off in a tone or a text message or I may not have done what you would have done in that situation. Fine. But I, I can recognize and I can change. And because of that, I built more trust in myself because instead of it being like, oh, see, see, we were, he was right. You know, like all that stuff about Me, I could say, no, he's not.
Joni Woods [00:13:21]:
But I am human. I am human. I wasn't perfect in the marriage. I'm not going to be perfect outside of the marriage, you know, and so for you to highlight, that's on you. Like, I'm gonna walk through this. And so understanding that I wasn't doing everything the best didn't mean that I couldn't trust my decision. It just meant I had the opportunity to fix it and do better next time. So I think that, yeah, building trust for yourself is the same way you do it with someone else.
Joni Woods [00:13:50]:
You know, if they, if they mess up, but they come and apologize, you're like, oh, okay, I, I see that you are someone who's going to self reflect. You're someone who's going to take accountability. You're someone who's going to change something, build little nuggets of trust that way. I think, you know, we can do that with ourselves too.
Leah Hadley [00:14:09]:
Yeah, I mean, absolutely. And so many people have gone through an experience, whether it was their partner betraying them or just not meeting expectations, where their trust has been broken in a really meaningful way. And so when you, when your trust is shaken like that, it does also cause you to lose trust in yourself because you trusted in this person that then, you know, betrayed you or whatever.
Leah Hadley [00:14:39]:
So that can be particularly difficult if you're coming out of a difficult relationship and acknowledging that it's okay to have to rebuild that self trust that is totally normal and, you know, taking some of the steps that Johnny's talking about and really giving yourself space to self reflect. Right. That's so huge. And I don't think we give ourselves enough space like that, especially when people are going through the other thing that I wanted to reflect on that you said. And it's something that we talk to clients a lot about just in terms of self protection. But the fact of the matter is, you're absolutely right. When you're going through the divorce process, anything that you do that might be considered crossing the line or a mistake or wrong does kind of get blown out of proportion in very unnecessary way. It can create a lot of tension and, you know, in some cases can impact your case, which I think is really important for people to understand.
Leah Hadley [00:15:31]:
So one of the things that we talk to clients a lot about is staying off of social media when they're going through the divorce process. Because a lot of times you might be posting something that feels very innocent or you might not be, but let's say you're posting Something that feels very innocent, and then you realize that the perception may be very different for somebody else. And all of a sudden, this. This post that felt very innocent becomes a focal point of your case. And it's like, whoa, what happened? Right.
Joni Woods [00:15:59]:
Yeah. Yep.
Leah Hadley [00:16:01]:
But you're exactly right. I mean, those. Whatever those things are, that maybe, you know, during the course of sort of normal, everyday life, it's like, oops, you know, and you kind of move on. But when you're going through this divorce process and you are in this, you know, potentially contentious situation with somebody, that those things can absolutely be. Be blown out of proportion. Johnny, I know a lot of people have really struggled with their relationship with religion and the church after making this decision to go through a divorce, or even. Maybe they weren't the one who made the decision. Right.
Leah Hadley [00:16:33]:
Maybe it was their spouse who decided. I would love to hear a little bit about your journey and your experience. You know, when you decided. You know, you mentioned not being a youth pastor anymore, but could you dive into that a little bit more?
Joni Woods [00:16:50]:
Yeah, I definitely can. I think it's. It's sad that that happens. And it happened to me. It just did. I had May when everyone found out in that particular church because we were down in his hometown and we were working at his childhood church, and I was friends with everyone. You know, I'd spent four or five years there and building relationships, and I had one conversation after everyone found out, and nobody talked to me after that. They just all scattered.
Joni Woods [00:17:29]:
There was like, blatant, like, if I had run into them, they wouldn't. They wouldn't. They wouldn't see me. You know, it's that, like, you know, oh, I don't.
Joni Woods [00:17:40]:
You know, that kind of thing. And it. It happened. It happened to me. I. The. The previous church that we had worked at, we were there. That.
Joni Woods [00:17:51]:
Where we had met, actually, I had gone up there to tell them, you know, the. Is what happened. That crew, they. They were like, well, we're actually surprised you lasted as long as you did because, you know, they knew who he was. They. We had been dismissed from that church, so it's not like they didn't know. So I. I'm still in contact with some of the people from that particular church.
Joni Woods [00:18:16]:
They definitely treated me better. They would. Every time I'd go in there with my kids, they'd welcome me and hug me and, you know, so I think. I honestly think it's just based on the people. And so for me.
Leah Hadley [00:18:29]:
Pause on that for one second, because I think that's really important to acknowledge. You had one experience at one place, an entirely different experience at another place, which to me says that if you're having this experience, this negative experience, that there might be somewhere else, another community that's willing to open their arms to you. Right.
Joni Woods [00:18:49]:
Yep, exactly. And I think that that's for me, because everyone's like, well, you're not bitter with the church. And I'm like, no, because it's the people, you know, it's how they are judging or they are reacting, as opposed to welcoming and loving and taking care of me. And I think that that right there speaks more to the person than it does to the. The faith. So, yeah, that's. And. And I was okay with it, you know, and it didn't.
Joni Woods [00:19:19]:
It didn't make me bitter. It doesn't make me bitter. I don't spend a lot of time in church now, but that's because I work at a restaurant, and our busiest weekend is brunch on Sunday. So I see everyone come in after church, like, you know, but it doesn't mean that I have this chip or this bitterness or this hate towards the. Anyone, to be quite honest.
Leah Hadley [00:19:43]:
Yeah, Yeah. I mean, I think that's so important because the fact of the matter is, if you're holding on to that, right. It's only impacting you. And so acknowledging the fact that, you know, there are opportunities, if you look at your relationship with your faith fish, like your relationship with other people. Right. To find other ways to connect and, you know, have that support and all of that. I do have one more question that I want to ask you, Donnie, before we wrap up, and that is, you know, you've talked a lot about people kind of anchoring in their decision to divorce and what that looks like, which I think is really valuable. How can somebody shift from that energy, from kind of defending that choice to really opening up, to thinking about, how do I kind of rebuild this new life for myself?
Joni Woods [00:20:28]:
Oh, yeah. I love that. Because that is essentially my book in and of itself, was I was learning to put aside everyone else's expectations for me. So in doing so, because I knew what I wanted my future to look like with my kids, what I had to find out. And what was most exciting was figuring out who I was, you know, because I had spent my entire life being the good Christian girl. I had spent my entire life being the Christian woman, the pastor's wife. Like, I was given all of these labels, you know, but in that, never figured out who I was. And I was given all these labels because I, you know, that's what I was raised in, and that's how I was told I was loved or respected or, you know, like, as long as I hit these expectations or I was the best of this particular label, then I was good.
Joni Woods [00:21:21]:
And what was exciting for me was being able to figure out who I was and doing it in a way that I had never done before. It was really freeing. I had never dated. I got married when I was 20 years old. And so I was 36, and I was like, all right, well, let's date. And what does that look like? And how do I do that? Because I never done it before. And then, you know, dating at that age one, and then you're dating all these people who are broken from their relationships. You know, they wanted to, like, get together right away and, you know, suddenly, boyfriend, girlfriend, And I was like, no, I've spent 15 years in a relationship.
Joni Woods [00:21:59]:
I want to date. Like, if I see a hot guy at a restaurant, I want to be able to give him my number and, like, lean into all of the new things that I was experiencing and do it in a way where I got to decide I like this part of me, or I wasn't a big fan of that part of me, you know, like just finding my way. And it was so much fun, all of it. And it still is, you know, like, all of this, this book, speaking podcasts, It's a lot of fun and it's exciting. And I just. I look back and think, if I was still married, all of this joy that I have right now, I wouldn't have.
Leah Hadley [00:22:38]:
Boy, that hits. That's a big deal, right? So, Johnny, you've mentioned the book a couple of times. Tell us a little bit more about the book.
Joni Woods [00:22:46]:
Yeah, so it's called Burned, Blocked, and Better than ever. It actually started out as Surviving Divorce Dating and Dick Pics, because I'm going to start a podcast called that. So the book, I had written it when I was in the middle of a divorce because my ex husband dragged that divorce out for a really long time. And like I said, you know, they were picking out everything. The fact that I was dating, the fact that I had gotten a nose ring, the fact that I had gotten a tattoo, everything was this big magnifier of oh she's going straight to hell. She's this terrible person now.
Joni Woods [00:23:24]:
Like, just all this stuff. And so I just journaled. I journaled and I wrote and I worked at a hospital from 7pm to 7am and there's not much to do from like 2 to 3, 4. So I was just writing and writing and writing and writing. And then I just kind of put it all together. And when I went to publish the first time, like in 2018, they told me they're like, yeah, you need to have like a big following. You need to be like super popular.
Joni Woods [00:23:52]:
And I was like, I work three jobs, four jobs. Sometimes I don't have time to. I don't even know how to do that. And so when I moved here to Ann Arbor in 2000, in 2021, I started building my business, my coaching practice, and everyone told me they're like, you need to have a book. I was like, well, okay, I got one of those. Let me put it together and you know, get it out there. And so I did, and now it's there. It's been out for like a month now.
Leah Hadley [00:24:25]:
Congratuations! That's amazing.
Joni Woods [00:24:26]:
Thank you.
Leah Hadley [00:24:28]:
And Joni actually said, before we started the interview today, that if there's somebody out there who would like her book, she is willing to give it to you for free. Yes, you heard that correctly. She's willing to give that to you for free. How can they connect with you, Joni, if they would like that?
Joni Woods [00:24:44]:
Yeah, you can go to my website, joniwoods.com and there's a little form in there and just fill it out and tell me about your story. How can I help? How can I get this in your hands and you know, hopefully impact.
Leah Hadley [00:25:00]:
Fantastic. And now that you have built the business, can people find you on social media?
Joni Woods [00:25:06]:
Oh yes. Oh my gosh. My social media got shut down in August. My ex husband's family was not too happy about the fact that I was publishing this book, so they got it shut down. But I'm on LinkedIn. You can always find me on LinkedIn, but I have a new Instagram.
Joni Woods [00:25:26]:
It's authorjoniwods. And then I'm on TikTok and YouTube.
Leah Hadley [00:25:31]:
Fantastic. So very accessible. Reach out to Joni. A great support, wonderful resources. Thank you so much for being with us here today, Joni.
Joni Woods [00:25:41]:
Thank you.
Leah Hadley [00:25:42]:
Do you have any final words you'd like to share with our audience?
Joni Woods [00:25:47]:
Yeah, I, as I've been talking about this, I think, you know, in terms of trying to figure out whether or not you should or want to or could do it, let me tell you, find your reason, find your why, and it will get you through. You know, my ex husband managed to get me kicked out of the house and I slept in a car. In my car, you know, I didn't have anyone. The church had abandoned me as well. My family lived in Canada. And I just remember laying in the car watching all these kids play because I had to park at a park and just going, my life will be better. My life will be better. And it did.
Joni Woods [00:26:31]:
And it is.
Leah Hadley [00:26:32]:
That's right. That's awesome. Well, I really appreciate your willingness to share your story. I know that a lot of people will be able to identify with some of the experiences that you had, Joni, and so thank you for your vulnerability. Thanks for being here with us and for our audience. Thanks for listening and we will see you time next next week. Thank you for joining me on Intentional Divorce Insights. It's a privilege to share this time with you.
Leah Hadley [00:26:56]:
I hope each episode offers valuable guidance to navigate your journey. If you find our content helpful, please leave a review to help others discover the benefits of intentional decision making in divorce. Until next time, take care and continue to embrace your path with intention.
