Leah Hadley [00:00:01]:
Welcome to Intentional Divorce Insights. I'm Leah Hadley, certified divorce financial analyst, accredited financial counselor, and the founder of Intentional Divorce Solutions. I'll be your guide through the complexities of divorce finance and emotional wellness. Join me as we uncover practical tips and empowering insights to help you navigate your divorce with clarity and intention.
Leah Hadley [00:00:24]:
Hi there and welcome back to Intentional Divorce Insights. I am so happy that you are here with us today. I have a wonderful, wonderful guest with us today. This is Jackie Pillisoft, who is a former TV reporter and Chicago Tribune features writer and columnist who created Divorced Girl Smiling, a media company that connects people facing divorce with trusted, vetted divorce professionals. Divorce Girl Smiling, known as the Angie's List for Divorce, also offers a well known podcast, articles on every subject you can think of when it comes to divorce and, and a free confidential consult. And it has been my absolute pleasure to be a member of the Divorce Girl Smiling group because Jackie has just attracted the most wonderful divorce professionals who care so much about the space and the clients. And it's just been such a pleasure to be a part of this group. So thank you, Jackie, for creating it and thanks for being with us today.
Jackie Pilossoph [00:01:23]:
Leah, that was such a nice introduction. Thank you so much. And thanks for having me.
Leah Hadley [00:01:28]:
Oh, absolutely. It's my pleasure. And we are talking today all about the good things that come out of divorce, which a lot of times people really focus on the challenges and the negative. And the fact of the matter is I found in my own life that I was actually able to be truer to myself and create a lot of wonderful things in my life after I went through my divorce. And I've shared a lot about that on this podcast. And so I'm excited for Jackie to share with us what she's seeing in terms of all of the good things that can can really come from this. So Jackie, tell us about the good things that come out of a divorce.
Jackie Pilossoph [00:02:04]:
Ah, well, I'm so glad we're talking about this because of course nobody wants to be divorced and all you can think about is how much fear you have and how stressed you are and how sad you are and oh, I feel like a failure and my kids are going to be screwed up. And there's like, you could go on and on about the negatives and I hope out of this conversation that people listening feel like, oh, okay, good things are gonna happen to me because of this, so they definitely will. And I do you just want me to start off with like one good thing? All right, so people tell me, people who go to Divorced Girl Smiling. They email me, they send me messages, Facebook messages, and say, I'm really scared to be alone. And so I call that, like, fear of independence. And divorce forces you to be independent. You don't have a choice whether you wanted the divorce or you didn't. You're going to be independent for a little while.
Jackie Pilossoph [00:03:07]:
You're not going to get remarried right away, but it forces you to be independent. And when you get to that point of realizing, like, wow, I can do this. I'm good at this. I'm completely fine. I actually enjoy living alone. It's the most empowering, best feeling in the world.
Leah Hadley [00:03:27]:
It really is. And, you know, I work with so many people who, for the first time, in a lot of cases, are managing their finances. And, you know, maybe they let their partner manage their finances in the past, and now they've taken responsibility for that. And there's so much fear in that. Right. It can be really terrifying, especially if you have a significant amount of wealth and suddenly you're responsible for it. That can feel very overwhelming for a lot of people.
Leah Hadley [00:03:53]:
And to witness that transformation, because I get to see it, and it's one of the best parts of the work that I do is to witness that transformation of people going from that place of fear to really taking ownership and saying, like, this is my responsibility and I can actually steward this really well. It's such a beautiful thing.
Jackie Pilossoph [00:04:10]:
Right. And a lot of people feel shame about not knowing how to manage the money and never having paid bills or whatever. And, Leah, I'm sure you've seen this a lot with people, but once you realize that it's not that complicated, you totally can handle it. And by the way, don't ever feel shame for. That was your role. Your role wasn't to play bills. You didn't do anything wrong. You just.
Jackie Pilossoph [00:04:38]:
That wasn't your role. And now when you get to that point of your understanding the stock market somewhat, you're understanding investments. It's so empowering and so wonderful.
Leah Hadley [00:04:52]:
Absolutely. Even as simple as maybe you're somebody who never had your own bank account, and you're going and you're opening a bank account in your name for the first time. That is such an empowering step. Absolutely.
Jackie Pilossoph [00:05:03]:
It feels so freeing. Yes. You know, and a lot of people who didn't want the divorce and they're devastated and they're scared, they realize that they really were staying in the marriage because of the comfort of the money and not having to manage their own money, not having to move. They were afraid of the changes. Even though deep down inside you realize it really wasn't right. Even if you weren't the one who wanted the divorce.
Leah Hadley [00:05:31]:
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So there are so many other good things. Tell us something else, Jackie.
Jackie Pilossoph [00:05:36]:
Okay, so divorce may also cause someone to have to go back to work. And this is what happened to me. And I have to say we could spend the whole time talking about all the benefits of going back to work because I was this like wealthy stay at home mom. I had worked in the past, but then I just kind of forgot that I had any ability whatsoever professionally. And I never was. I wasn't happy. I realize that now. When I stayed home and had as much money as I wanted and when I did have to go back to work, I was really scared.
Jackie Pilossoph [00:06:18]:
I waited way too long, which is why everyone listening needs to have a meeting with a financial advisor and figure out when exactly how much you have to make, what kind of job you should be looking for. You need to know, because I waited way too long. But when you go back to work and you finally do it, there are so many wonderful things from making your own money, not having to worry, is he going to give me the check this month? I mean, that was like the point I was at. Sure. Maybe he's upset about something so he's not going to pay. Then you're going to have to call your attorney who needs that. Like, you should still make sure that you get your child support checks. But if you're working and having your own money, you're so much more in control.
Jackie Pilossoph [00:07:06]:
Also, socially, you make all these new friends and contacts. It's so wonderful. Also, you get to get relatively nicely dressed up. You're feeling good about yourself, you're feeling confident, you're feeling productive. You appreciate your kids more because you're not seeing them as much. But the time you're with them is like quality time. And it just leads to more and more self confidence and success.
Leah Hadley [00:07:33]:
I love that so much on so many levels. And I have to believe, Jackie, that there are probably people who are listening who are like, that has not been my experience that in fact this has been a huge blow to my confidence and I'm really struggling right now. What would you say to those women?
Jackie Pilossoph [00:07:50]:
You mean the divorce was a big blow to their confidence?
Leah Hadley [00:07:53]:
Correct.
Jackie Pilossoph [00:07:54]:
Okay. So I would say a divorce is a big blow to every single person's self confidence. And even if you're the most self confident, well adjusted person, you go through a divorce and it gets zapped and you just feel like a failure and a loser and oh, you know, I'm embarrassed and you have no self confidence or your self confidence just tanks. So all I would say is you have to precipitate behavior that helps your self confidence and your self love come, come back. And one of those for me was going back to work. I just liked myself so much more. But I'm not saying everybody listening that you have to go back to work. Maybe you already work and that part of your life is working for you.
Jackie Pilossoph [00:08:40]:
But like if you want to have self love and self confidence, it takes time. But I'd highly recommend divorce coaching and therapy and figure out how you're going to craft a life that you really love and enjoy doing things and what is going to make you happy in the future. And it takes a while to figure out. For some people it's okay if you're like, I have no idea what that is. Some lady told me that someone asked her like what do you like to do for fun? And she just burst out crying because she's like, I have no idea, I don't even know.
Leah Hadley [00:09:17]:
And that's common. I mean it really is common. Especially I work with so many just wonderful women who have given so much of themselves to their family over the years, and to their spouse over the years. And then they really do kind of wake up and realize that like it's time to get to know themselves again, right. That they might not necessarily know what they really enjoy anymore because they've been so focused on everybody else.
Jackie Pilossoph [00:09:42]:
Right. And what these life coaches and divorce coaches do is there's tools that they give you, there's a quite questions you have to answer, there's homework for you to do to figure out some avenues. And of course you're going to have to try a bunch of different things. You know, I. This is a story I love. When I first was getting divorced, I realized my love of writing so much and I started writing for the local paper for $50 a week, a column. I did it once a week. I was so excited.
Jackie Pilossoph [00:10:21]:
I hadn't made money in so long and I was like 50 bucks, okay, that's great. And I wrote this article out what was going on in my town for the weekend and I had to just like look things up, figure it out and write this column. But it gave me like this little starting point and I was like, okay, now I want to do more. And so I kept getting promoted within the paper. Eventually got my own column, was a features reporter. You know, like I really Worked as a job that an intern would do when I first started, and I was, like, in my 40s, mid-40s. So be humble. Don't be afraid to try new things, because it will all lead to more things.
Jackie Pilossoph [00:11:04]:
And if you don't play pickleball, I would highly recommend it.
Leah Hadley [00:11:09]:
That's funny. That's really caught on. I've actually never played pickleball, but, boy, do I see them popping up all over the place.
Jackie Pilossoph [00:11:15]:
Okay, well, the funny thing is, I never have either, but every single person I know except for me and you play pickleball.
Leah Hadley [00:11:23]:
That's funny. So, Jackie, what else? There's so many other good things that can come out of the divorce experience.
Jackie Pilossoph [00:11:30]:
Okay, Leah, you'll probably agree with this one. It makes you more interesting, active and unafraid. So when you were getting divorced, I don't know about you, but I would always think, like, well, if I can handle that, I could handle anything. I mean, you know, I actually. Well, I don't want to, like, be a bummer on the podcast, but I do want to share this. I actually had cancer, like, five years ago, and I swear, if someone said, like, what was worse? I think the divorce was worse. And. But I remember thinking, like, okay, I got through the divorce.
Jackie Pilossoph [00:12:08]:
I'll handle this, too. And listen, it wasn't like, a bad killer kind of cancer, so no worries on that. But it made me so much stronger. It made me unafraid of handling anything. And so if you are going through a divorce, realize that it's really going to make you such a stronger, tougher person, more interesting. I mean, people are going to want to hear your stories, and it will make you unafraid to do, like, other things because you're in a really tough spot right now, and this is, like, probably the hardest life you're gonna have probably ever. I would think for most people, there's.
Leah Hadley [00:12:48]:
No question about it, that it builds resilience and it builds character whether you want it to or not. But, yeah, that can absolutely be very challenging. But I think you're absolutely right, Jackie. I don't think I would have started my businesses if I hadn't gone through my divorce. And part of that was the, you know, relationship that I had with my former spouse. But part of that also was recognizing that I can do difficult things, that I can get through this tough thing, and I can figure it out, you know, and so that was really, really powerful for me to learn. There's no question about it.
Jackie Pilossoph [00:13:22]:
Well, you and I are both two people who reinvented ourselves after divorce. And I love that word reinvention. Women in their 40s, 50s, 60s, even 70s are reinventing themselves. You get to start from scratch. And you are completely different person when that you were 20 years ago. And so, you know, you. You take what you love, you take what you know, what you're good at, your passion, and you start what you want. And don't let anyone tell you you can't do it, because you can.
Jackie Pilossoph [00:13:57]:
And we both did it.
Leah Hadley [00:13:59]:
Absolutely. And I've seen women do it at every age, which is such a beautiful thing to witness. So I absolutely agree with you, Jackie, that it doesn't matter how old you are. Follow, follow your dreams and. And you'll be amazed at what you can accomplish.
Jackie Pilossoph [00:14:14]:
Yeah. And every single person I know says, I need to write a book. And I go, then do it. Yeah, don't do it because you want to make money and all this. Just do it because you have something to say. And if it's, if. If you have conviction and you get it out there, it will be successful in one way or the other. Maybe not financially, maybe financially, but you'll be helping other people and spreading your message, and it will lead to more and more things.
Leah Hadley [00:14:42]:
Oh, absolutely. Now, one thing I wanted to dig into a little bit more. One of the things you said before that I know is a really big challenge for a lot of people post divorce is friendships. And one of the things that you said before is you get to meet new people, you get to make new friends. So, Jackie, what advice do you have for people who are stuck in that feeling very lonely and disconnected?
Jackie Pilossoph [00:15:06]:
I'm going to give the advice that I gave my daughter when she was in seventh grade and her friend group dropped her. I'm going to tell people what I told her, which was, all you need is one friend to start with. And it is really true. And when I got divorced, I met this one girl. Oh, my gosh. My daughter is actually calling right now. She's in college now. But
Jackie Pilossoph [00:15:36]:
when I was getting divorced, I met this woman in my kickboxing class. And we were the only two people in our community that we knew of getting divorced. And we started going out together all the time. And we became best friends for many years. And it was like. And then people, like one girl said to us, hey, I'm getting divorced. Like, can I go out with you guys? We're like, sure. And then it became like a group.
Jackie Pilossoph [00:16:01]:
And then it would be like people would text each other when we were. Didn't have our Kids, we'd go to a movie or go out for coffee and it was, it was such a nice little community. And if you can build or get into a community like that, it's so supportive. And all you need is one person to start that community.
Leah Hadley [00:16:21]:
Oh, I love that so much. That's so wonderful. And so such a simple way to meet somebody. Right. You both had a common interest. You were enjoying a class, like what a great place to meet somebody, which.
Jackie Pilossoph [00:16:32]:
Is you bring up a great point, follow what you like to do. And I can remember like a couple times crying and calling my sister and she'd be like, why don't you just go to the gym? And I'm like, because I don't feel like working out. I'm just too upset. And she goes, why don't you just go and like walk around the track or just go and do a really super light workout. And I listened to her. And one time I didn't even really work out, I just stretched. But I saw people I knew. I felt better.
Jackie Pilossoph [00:17:02]:
I got off of the couch, out of the house and that is so important. It will change everything. But I don't not going to tell everybody you have to go to the gym and be like a workout person either. There's many other things. Take a walk around your block. Just go to a coffee house and sit there and read a book. Instead of reading it on your couch and anything, just get out.
Jackie Pilossoph [00:17:27]:
Go window shopping. Go shopping and spend money if you need to, you know, just get out of the house.
Leah Hadley [00:17:34]:
Yeah, that's so important. Absolutely. So what other good things come out of a divorce?
Jackie Pilossoph [00:17:39]:
I believe that when you get divorced you get to parent the way that you want and you don't have to listen anymore to your ex. And that, that to me was really meaningful because we're really different.
Leah Hadley [00:17:58]:
Yeah.
Jackie Pilossoph [00:17:58]:
I mean, I don't, I don't mean that we parallel parented, although at some points we did. But you can still co parent and be a team with your ex. I, I'm a strong supporter of that. But you get to do what you want to do and make your own traditions and handle things the way that you want to handle them. And, and you know, I got divorced when my kids were three and five and it was always just the three of us. And now even, you know, my son lives in downtown Chicago and my daughter came home and we, the three of us met for dinner and I was like thinking, the three of us have been through so much together.
Leah Hadley [00:18:36]:
Absolutely. I think about you know, my ex husband did not like to go to restaurants very much. He always liked to eat at home. He was raised with a mom who stayed home and cooked all the time. But obviously I work and I've always been very committed to my career, and so I haven't really been that person. And my mom was a career woman as well. And so I like to go out to restaurants and I like to take my kids out to restaurants. And when we were married, that was the source of tension.
Leah Hadley [00:19:01]:
Like if I wanted to go to our restaurant, that was a source of tension between us. And so Jackie, I have to say, it was so nice when I was able to just take my kids to a restaurant was my decision. We got to sit down and enjoy our time together. And it just. I. I could hear what you're saying.
Jackie Pilossoph [00:19:17]:
I know. It is so nice. And for people listening. If you have young kids, enjoy. But wait till they get older. They're so much fun. They're like your best friends.
Jackie Pilossoph [00:19:28]:
They're so, so cute. They'll always be like your kids, no matter how old they are. But it's, it's delightful.
Leah Hadley [00:19:35]:
See, I have teenagers still, so we're not there yet.
Jackie Pilossoph [00:19:39]:
Almost. You're pretty close. You're in the phase where I was a few years ago when I went out of town and my neighbor said my whole garage was full and there was a huge party and a kegger. That wasn't that long ago.
Leah Hadley [00:19:56]:
Well, hopefully everybody was okay.
Jackie Pilossoph [00:19:58]:
Yes, thank God.
Leah Hadley [00:20:00]:
Any other good things that come out of a divorce that you want to share with us?
Jackie Pilossoph [00:20:04]:
Well, I think we have to say this, Leah, that divorce creates the opportunity for you to be with the right person. It doesn't happen overnight. But everybody. I've never met any person who said my husband really was the love of my life. And I. I'll never. I've never met anyone again 20 years later that I loved so much. Even if they didn't meet anyone, they're glad they're divorced.
Jackie Pilossoph [00:20:31]:
I mean, have you ever met anyone who ever said they, they should never have gotten divorced and it was a terrible idea and they like, truly still love their hus been?
Leah Hadley [00:20:40]:
I definitely have people who still love their spouse, but even if they love their spouse, they're still happy that they decided made that decision for one reason or another. And even, like, I care about my ex on some level. Like, I look at him as family, you know, he's my kid's dad and everything, but I'm happily remarried. He's happily remarried. Like we were not the right partners for one another. And I hear what you're saying. I think it does give you an opportunity to find that right person. Person for yourself.
Jackie Pilossoph [00:21:09]:
Well, what I want to know, Leah, is if your ex husband goes to restaurants with his new wife, she loves to cook.
Leah Hadley [00:21:17]:
She found a better burner for him. Right? So she loves to cook. She loves to. To do that at home and to eat at home with the kids. And so it works for them, working out for everybody. That's right. That's right. Well, Jackie, your website has so many wonderful resources and your podcast has so many wonderful resources.
Leah Hadley [00:21:36]:
Where can people find all these wonderful resources?
Jackie Pilossoph [00:21:39]:
Divorced Girl smiling.com it's the only link to go to. I mean, the podcast is available on Apple anywhere podcasts can be found. But if you go to divorcegirlsmiling.com it'll take you to the podcast, the articles, the trusted professionals, of course. And then if you want to sign up for my free consultation, you can do that on the site as well.
Leah Hadley [00:22:03]:
And I have to recommend that to everybody who's listening because Jackie doesn't work with people individually. What Jackie does is she has curated this amazing network of professionals who are members of Divorce Girls Smiling. And as she gets to know you through this consultation, she's going to be able to share with you who's going to be a fantastic fit to really support you based on what your specific needs are. So I just think everybody should take advantage of that conversation with Jackie because there's no risk to you, only benefit. And so you might as well.
Jackie Pilossoph [00:22:37]:
And it's free and it's confidential, so I don't even share it with the professionals that I recommend. I don't share anything you tell me in it.
Leah Hadley [00:22:46]:
Well, Jackie, I so appreciate you spending time with us today. I'm going to include a link to the article that she and I were talking about today, so you can see all of those eight great things written out. But I think it's a great perspective on really looking at what is the silver lining and really reflecting on what you're grateful for as a result of this process instead of focusing on the loss. The fact of the matter is everybody who goes through this process is losing something. There is a period of grief that you go through that's completely normal. But that doesn't mean that you can't also see the silver lining. Right? It can be a both. It doesn't have to be an or.
Leah Hadley [00:23:24]:
And I think that's so powerful. Jackie, do you have any other final words you'd like to share with our audience today?
Jackie Pilossoph [00:23:30]:
Sure. How about if we close with this? If you're listening to this, the biggest, best advice I can give you is believe in yourself and love yourself. If you've made mistakes, so what? Forgive yourself. It doesn't help to punish yourself or feel guilty or feel like, oh, I made a mistake. Okay, we all make mistakes. Believe in yourself. You are a beautiful, kind person. You're a good parent, you're working hard, and you deserve a new life of happiness.
Jackie Pilossoph [00:24:05]:
So that's my advice.
Leah Hadley [00:24:06]:
Oh, I love that. That is such a wonderful note to conclude on for our audience. Thank you so much for being here with us today for sharing in my conversation with Jackie. Jackie, thank you for being here and I hope you all have a wonderful week. Bye Bye.
Leah Hadley [00:24:21]:
Thank you for joining me on Intentional Divorce Insights. It's a privilege to share this time with you. I hope each episode offers valuable guidance to navigate your journey. If you find our content helpful, please leave a review to help others discover the benefits of intentional decision making in divorce. Until next time, take care and continue to embrace your path with intention.
