Leah Hadley [00:00:01]:
Welcome to Intentional Divorce Insights. I'm Leah Hadley, Certified divorce Financial Analyst, accredited financial counselor, and the founder of Intentional Divorce Solutions. I'll be your guide through the complexities of divorce, finance and emotional wellness. Join me as we uncover practical tips and empowering insights to help you navigate your divorce with clarity and intention.
Leah Hadley [00:00:24]:
Welcome back to Intentional Divorce Insights. I am so happy that you are here with us today. We have a really special guest. I just met Joe here before we started recording, but I've actually been following his work for a really long time. He puts out fantastic content online. So I'm really excited about our conversation and I hope that you will look up some of the resources that Joe and his team have available for you online because like I said, they're really excellent. But let me tell you a little bit about him before we get into our conversation.
Leah Hadley [00:00:55]:
Joe is a pioneer in divorce mediation who has been helping couples navigate the end of their marriages with dignity and financial wisdom for over 17 years. As co founder of Equitable Mediation Services, he combines his MBA in finance with specialized training from Harvard, MIT and Northwestern University to guide couples toward agreements that protect both their emotional well being and their financial futures. We are kindred spirits in that way. As a child of divorce who witnessed firsthand the devastating impact of attorney driven litigation on families, Joe brings personal experience that, combined with his professional expertise, enables him to help couples focus on creating agreements that work for everyone, especially the children. Joe pioneered virtual divorce mediation in 2011, nearly a decade before others adopted online practices during the pandemic. His results speak for themselves. Listen to this. Equitable Mediation services maintains a 98% case resolution rate.
Leah Hadley [00:02:01]:
Now, for those of you who might not be familiar, that is significantly higher than the industry average of 70%. As a sought after expert, Joe has been featured in Business Insider, Newsweek, Forbes, Huffington Post, Yahoo, msn, and the Daily Mail. His blog has attracted over a million visitors. Joe believes divorce doesn't have to be destructive. With the right guidance and expertise, couples can part ways amicably while protecting what matters most. Welcome Joe. Thank you so much for being with us.
Joe Dillon [00:02:33]:
Thanks for that intro. Lee. I'm not sure who you were talking about, but that guy sounds all right. You know.
Leah Hadley [00:02:41]:
Clearly lots of experience and expertise to share with our audience. There's no question about it.
Joe Dillon [00:02:46]:
Yeah. Looking forward to talking. Yep.
Leah Hadley [00:02:49]:
So I am just fascinated by the success rate that you are having. So Joe, I'm hoping that you can talk to us a little bit about what you specifically do that helps couples successfully navigate this process. Because I know online in particular, mediation, quite frankly, gets a really bad reputation. And you know that I'm a big proponent of mediation. So let's talk about how are you seeing people have this much success in mediation?
Joe Dillon [00:03:18]:
Yeah, so that's a great question, right? So, you know, as you know, right, we're kindred spirits. We're both financial professionals. And I like to remind clients the numbers don't lie. And one of the things that a lot of times in divorce, right, a lot of the issues are very emotional people, emotions are heightened, right? And so what happens, they go online, they talk to their friends, they talk to their family, they start whispering in their ear and don't settle for anything. You can, you can do better, right? There's all this misinformation out there about what I'm entitled to and, you know, all these things, right? And when you really boil it down, you get into the brass tax and you look at budgets and you look at the balance sheet, you know, the total sum of, total of the assets and liabilities. That's it, guys. Like when we look at those numbers and you put them in front of people, because a lot of people, and you probably know this, a lot of people don't do budgets, right? I do a budget annually. I check in on it.
Joe Dillon [00:04:13]:
I want to make sure I'm on track, right? And not a lot of people are doing budgets. And so they don't know what they're spending. So therefore, they don't know what their lifestyle costs. Therefore, they don't know how much they need in support or how much they could afford to pay in support. Similarly, a lot of people don't know how much is their house worth, what's in their 401k, how much is on their credit cards, right? We have so many things that auto debit, our credit cards. We just don't know how those balances build up over time. And so we go through a process and this is what I recommend to everybody. As I say, do the discovery before the deciding, right.
Joe Dillon [00:04:47]:
People will come in a session. I'm sure you see this as well. We already talked and we, we talked about, we decided that child support is going to be this and alimony is going to be that. I'm like, how'd you come up with those numbers? I talked to chat GPT and you know, and it told me that's what I should get, right? You're like, oh, boy. So when you start going through a process, right, and put the pay stubs on the table and the tax returns and all the bills and you say, well, okay, folks, this is really what it's going to cost you. Here's what you spend on your kids. Let's take a look again at some of those numbers. And when you start pushing back, gentle, of course, you push back by showing them the data, showing them the numbers, it's really hard for them to argue.
Joe Dillon [00:05:23]:
And even if. Even if they're not happy about it, you get to that place in mediation where they're like, okay, yeah, I see. Okay. And that's how we get people really to agreement, right? Is we prove it to them. We prove to them that what they're doing is going to work in the short and long term, is a good compromise. And it's hard to refute it when you're looking at all the information in front of you. So that's kind of the approach we take. It's a little analytical.
Joe Dillon [00:05:49]:
We don't ignore the emotional side, of course, but we say the numbers don't lie. And when you put it in front of people like that, it's really hard to argue with. So that's really, I think, a big key to our success.
Leah Hadley [00:06:01]:
Yeah. And I really want to highlight a point that you made there, Joe, and that is discovery before decision, Right. That is critical. And so often people really are putting the cart before the horse. Right. And that's where we get in these circular conversations, because now we have a little bit of information, we're making some decisions, then there's a little bit more information that becomes available, and suddenly we realize, wait, that wasn't the right decision. Right. And that's really frustrating for people.
Leah Hadley [00:06:29]:
But if you take the time to put all your cards out on the table first, know exactly what you're working with, now we can start to look at how do we solve the puzzle, Right?
Joe Dillon [00:06:39]:
Exactly. Yeah. And it's funny, the example I use is like, say you and I were going to go out to dinner, right? And we were at a conference, and we were. We're in a city. We've never. Either of us have been, and we don't know what neighborhood we're in. And I said, yeah, hey, Leah, where do you want to go to dinner? You'd be like, well, what's around here? Right. I'm sure that'd be like the first phrase out of your mouth.
Joe Dillon [00:06:56]:
What are my choices? I'd be like, I don't know. Where do you want to go? And you, you keep looking at me like, joe, I got like, what's close? How are we getting there? What's what's on the menu. What do you feel like eating?
Joe Dillon [00:07:07]:
Right.
Joe Dillon [00:07:08]:
That's the discovery process, getting all of that information so that you can make informed decisions. Because like you said, as new information comes to light, people want to start changing their minds. And that creates conflict because then one party says, well, wait a minute, we agreed on the support number was blank. You can't change your mind. And a mediation, they can, right? Especially in light of new information. So if you get it all out on the table up front, it avoids a lot of that, right?
Leah Hadley [00:07:36]:
Absolutely. Absolutely. Now, Joe, you've said that mediation is about looking through the windshield, not the rear view mirror. What does that mean practically for couples who are caught up in the hurt and anger of divorce?
Joe Dillon [00:07:49]:
Yeah. So that's a great quote by Bird Baggot. It's my favorite quote. You know, view life through the windshield, not the rear view mirror. And what I just love about the show and about the way, you know, you put this, this forward is intentional divorce.
Joe Dillon [00:08:02]:
Right?
Joe Dillon [00:08:03]:
And it's like you, I hope no one enters the divorce going, I'm going to really screw this up. Let's burn this thing to the ground. Right? You know, nobody does that, right? But guess what? They don't set the intention of having an amicable divorce, of coming to agreement, of remaining calm, of looking forward. And so that's part of what we kind of level set with people and say, look, the time for arguing is over. It's not that I'm trying to be cruel or flip about it or I'm not a nice guy or I don't care, but whatever got you to my office or virtual office at this moment in time, I call day zero. This is the first day we need to move forward. My job, your job as a mediator, it's to help you craft an agreement that's going to govern your if you have kids, co parenting relationship and your financial relationship moving forward.
Joe Dillon [00:08:55]:
Right?
Joe Dillon [00:08:56]:
You've come to me and you've said you no longer wish to be married. So why would we spend all this time talking about all the past, you know, problems, transgressions, Those are things that are only going to keep you married. You've come to me to tell you want a divorce. So a divorce is a separation. Let's help you get there.
Joe Dillon [00:09:16]:
Right?
Joe Dillon [00:09:17]:
And we can only do that if we look forward. Because a lot of times, and you probably hear this too, a lot of folks will want to bring up the past and they'll say, well, well, you never blanked before. It's like, well, that Might be true and that's not my business to know, but maybe now moving forward, you will cook a turkey on Thanksgiving and you will have a traditional meal or you will start doing homework with the kids, right? Because guess what? As a single parent, you're going to have to.
Joe Dillon [00:09:45]:
Right?
Joe Dillon [00:09:45]:
So that's what I'm constantly doing. And a favorite phrase of mine from a professor I had at Northwestern, she said she was a mental health professional and she said when folks get into this spiral, she likes to, she had glasses, she'd like take her glasses off slowly. She kind of lean in and she'd be like, you know, this sounds like an old argument and it's a great line, right? Because it's, I'm sure it is. And it's just spinning and spinning and spinning. So as soon as you get to people to start recognizing those patterns, that this isn't serving them and helping them move forward, that's where you kind of unlock the magic of mediation, if you will, and can help them move forward.
Leah Hadley [00:10:25]:
It's so important. And I even have seen it in my own relationship, my own divorce and co parenting relationship. I was one of those parents who was very concerned that their dad was not going to be helping with homework or doing the things right. Because I had been the primary parent while we were married. But I have been so impressed with the way that he has stepped up and the way that our dynamic and relationship has changed, changed over the years. Now mind you, we've been divorced like 10 years now, but as our kids have grown up, you know, we've both evolved as people, as parents, as co parents, right. And really allowing each other to have that space. And I was definitely that person when we were going through the divorce that was very concerned about those things.
Leah Hadley [00:11:09]:
Right.
Joe Dillon [00:11:10]:
Of course.
Leah Hadley [00:11:10]:
But we do, we evolve, we change. This is a huge life changing event. Right. And it means that our roles are going to change.
Joe Dillon [00:11:18]:
Absolutely. And people forget that, right. The person I was yesterday, I'm not that person today, right. I'm a day different. And that's going to, as you said, evolve over time. And the moment when you're in the divorce process, right. And you know this personally, you know, my parents litigated their divorce, so I witnessed it as a kid. So I, I watched that unfold.
Joe Dillon [00:11:37]:
And, and so those kinds of things, that's the worst moment of your life, right. As you know, you hear all those, those, those studies and you know, about the death and divorce are like some of the most stressful events in life.
Joe Dillon [00:11:50]:
Right.
Joe Dillon [00:11:50]:
And of course, and they are. And so just remembering that and again with that looking through the windshield, right. Is like, well, okay, this is really terrible right now. But I'm gonna have faith that it will get better over time. And if you have that attitude, my relationship with my ex will get better over time. My kids will adjust over time, you know, but all of these things that we've talked about, right? And like you said about your ex, you have to take an active role in doing something about it, right? You can't just say, well, I'm going to just lean back and fold my arms and it's going to be better. It's like, no, you need to actively engage as a parent. You need to actively work on your relationship.
Joe Dillon [00:12:30]:
I even tell clients in mediation, they think I'm crazy. I say, you guys should go to couples counseling.
Leah Hadley [00:12:36]:
Yeah.
Joe Dillon [00:12:37]:
And I'm like, yeah. I was like, guess what? You're still a detached family unit. You're still a mom and a dad with some kids, right? Like, why wouldn't you work on that relationship? I'm not asking you to repair your marriage. I'm just asking you to be able to communicate so your kids can see a role model for them to say, you know what? Mom and dad, they got divorced. They didn't stick together as a married couple. That's okay. But boy, look at them. They can still be on the sideline at my soccer game or at my graduation.
Joe Dillon [00:13:03]:
And that's what kids are really looking for, Right? They're really looking to you as an adult. And anyone who has kids will crack up at this.
Joe Dillon [00:13:11]:
Right?
Joe Dillon [00:13:12]:
Try swearing in front of like a 2 year old or 3 year old, right? You hit your hand in the kitchen and you go, right? You say a word. That kid is running around the house saying the F word constantly. Like, you're like, stop. Because they hear, right? They parrot, they sponge. And so they're sponging also of what your relationship dynamic is. And you got to work at that.
Leah Hadley [00:13:34]:
Yeah, absolutely. And of course, Joe, I love that you have the financial background. I think that is so valuable for somebody who is leading people through the huge financial decisions. I'm curious what some of the common mistakes that you see couples make when they're in that reactive mode versus when they're really making deliberate financial decisions.
Joe Dillon [00:13:56]:
Yeah. So the. Probably the biggest one when it comes to financial stuff is they're trying to. How can I put this delicately? They're trying to take out their anger financially on their soon to be ex. And what they don't realize is that it's really harming their kids. So for example, as you know, you know, every state has a child support guideline. You know, we'll run the guidelines, we'll show them the numbers. And the person who's going to be paying is angry at that ex spouse and saying, well, how come you need so much money? What are you going to do with it?
Joe Dillon [00:14:32]:
Right?
Joe Dillon [00:14:32]:
And it's like, well, because they haven't done budgets, right? They've never done budgets before. This person probably hasn't gone to a grocery store lately and seen that eggs are $47 a dozen and you know, gas is $12 a gallon and.
Joe Dillon [00:14:46]:
Right.
Joe Dillon [00:14:46]:
You know, so I'm exaggerating a little bit down here in California. Not so much. But you know, at the end of the day, right, it's like this, these monies that are going to support that other household, even alimony, right, that's going to afford that other parent to have a lifestyle commensurate with the parents person paying. Now, I'm not saying that both of them are going to be very well off or things are going to be rosy, you know, moving forward, but it's trying to use that financial process to exact revenge on that ex when kids are involved because those kids are going to suffer too. Now, you know, the recipient of support might have to live in a, in a, you know, studio apartment, whereas the other person's in the three or four bedroom house. You know, they might not be able to take the kids out for, you know, fast food or a movie or go to Starbucks or something, but the other person can. And it creates this, this friction between parents, right? Because now if you're a kid, you're like, well, I don't want to go to dads, I don't want to go to moms because I don't like their place. You have an Xbox and I have a Sega over here and I have a this and that, right? And, and so you create this dynamic, right? And I think that's probably, that's the number one thing I see.
Joe Dillon [00:15:51]:
It's like, look, you just have to say to yourself, this money is going towards a household that's going to support, yes, I get it. My ex spouse, but also my children who will be there most likely part of the time. And in my practice, probably half the time, most of the people I work with tend to come to 50, 50 parenting plans. So I'd say that's probably my biggest, biggest bugaboo that I see. Right? So I tell people, dial back the emotions, make this a business transaction, recognize that each of you have expenses, and it's, and it's good that your lifestyles are roughly on par with each other.
Leah Hadley [00:16:24]:
And I think the other piece there is, there can be just a tremendous amount of fear around these financial decisions because people aren't taking the time to, to really understand what does this actually mean for me from a cash flow perspective. Right. If you don't have that budget in place, how do you know if you can afford that level of support or not?
Joe Dillon [00:16:43]:
Right, right, exactly. Yeah. And that's exactly right. You know, people are like, they just ask for money or they ask for the guideline or whatever it is. And I'm like, have you really fleshed this out? Like another, you know, obviously here in America, another bugaboo is health insurance. And so typically the party receiving support is the lower earner, and in my experience, typically is either working inside the home or is in a job that does not provide health insurance. Now they have to go out and get their own health insurance. And depending on how old you are and what kind of conditions you have, you know, you're looking at hundreds, if not thousand or thousands dollars a month.
Joe Dillon [00:17:22]:
And that wasn't in their budget. That never was even in the purview.
Joe Dillon [00:17:26]:
Right.
Joe Dillon [00:17:26]:
So you go out and you say, look, you got to do the work and you have to go out and get this information because you're going to be predicating support conversations on your budget. And if you don't have, if you're missing this $1,000 a month piece, that's, that's a big, big nut you're missing.
Joe Dillon [00:17:42]:
Right.
Joe Dillon [00:17:42]:
So to your point.
Leah Hadley [00:17:43]:
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I'm always surprised around the health insurance conversations in particular, where people are just misinformed. Right. And how you can just literally quite call a health insurance broker and get some information to become educated and informed to have those conversations. But so often people just kind of blindly enter those, those specific conversations without that information. And you're right, Joe. It can easily be upwards of a thousand dollars.
Joe Dillon [00:18:13]:
Absolutely. And you made a great point. I want to just emphasize for the viewers.
Joe Dillon [00:18:18]:
Right.
Joe Dillon [00:18:18]:
Is that get educated, that's a universal thing.
Joe Dillon [00:18:22]:
Right.
Joe Dillon [00:18:22]:
Educated doesn't mean the guy who serves you your coffee at the coffee shop. Educated means talking to professionals like you, like me, like a broker, you know, like a financial advisor, like, like whoever.
Joe Dillon [00:18:34]:
Right.
Joe Dillon [00:18:34]:
And say, what am I in for? What should I expect? Right. Even learning about the divorce process. Right. You talked about, you know, with us, you know, we have, we blog because I'll, I'll be honest, right? Everybody's going to hear this anyway. Make no mistake. An educated client is a good client, right? If somebody walks into my office and says, you know, I read your guide to the five options of divorce and I understand now the differences between them and yeah, mediation is really the way I want to go. Or somebody calls us and they have a meeting with us and I educate them and I say, you know what, folks, I would love to work with you, but I don't think mediation is appropriate for you because I'm going to tell you that as well. I want you to get the best result in your situation.
Joe Dillon [00:19:15]:
Right?
Joe Dillon [00:19:16]:
And that's all part of getting educated from a professional who knows it, who's been there, who understands. Then you can go into the process, make informed decisions, whether it's the decision on which divorce method to use, how to negotiate financial support.
Joe Dillon [00:19:32]:
Right.
Joe Dillon [00:19:32]:
How to divide your property, you know, what documents do I need to divide a 401k, right? You don't have to do it. It's just kind of a good idea to have some base knowledge to be able to ask intelligent questions.
Joe Dillon [00:19:44]:
Right?
Leah Hadley [00:19:45]:
And while we're talking about this, because you do have so many great resources on your site, I know you have a free course about divorce mediation on your site. Tell us about that and how people can access it.
Joe Dillon [00:19:57]:
Yeah, certainly. So if you go to our website, which I know you'll put there in the show links there, there's what's called a resource center, right. You'll see resources and it's all broken out by topics and courses and kits and you know, divorce issues, divorce support.
Joe Dillon [00:20:12]:
Right.
Joe Dillon [00:20:13]:
If you click on the courses and kits button, you'll see we have some course offerings there and one of them is the free guide to Divorce Mediation. And it's, you know, multi part course, you know, it's just videos. If you're not sick of listening to me talk already, you know, you can. I'll give you the overview about what it is, how the process works. I'll talk a little bit about the four, what I call the big buckets, right? Parenting, child support, alimony, property division, how mediation works in all those regards, whether or not you need a lawyer. It'll give you the basics, right? That's so that you can even, it's even a little bit about divorce itself as well, right? Because you want to know what those issues are that you need to resolve. And so we always encourage people watch that course, learn a little bit about mediation, see if it's right for you.
Joe Dillon [00:21:00]:
Right?
Joe Dillon [00:21:00]:
Because we want to respect clients time. And if mediation is not going to be something that's going to work for them.
Joe Dillon [00:21:06]:
Right.
Joe Dillon [00:21:06]:
Because it's voluntary and both spouses need to be willing to come in, then no problem. You learned at least about the four big bucket topics. You can, you know, go educate yourself again. On our, on our website, you can find a guide on how to choose a lawyer.
Joe Dillon [00:21:20]:
Right.
Joe Dillon [00:21:20]:
Because we also want people to understand, like, look, we're, we're not anti lawyer, we're anti conflict.
Joe Dillon [00:21:25]:
Right.
Joe Dillon [00:21:25]:
And if you come into mediation and you can't mediate, we want you to at least find a mediation friendly or a collaborative divorce friendly lawyer.
Joe Dillon [00:21:33]:
Right.
Joe Dillon [00:21:33]:
Not somebody who's going to say, you know, the pit bull attorney, like, pull the pin out of the grenade and let's blow this thing up.
Joe Dillon [00:21:40]:
Right.
Joe Dillon [00:21:40]:
You want to, you want to guide people in a way that's going to get them the best result in their situation.
Joe Dillon [00:21:45]:
Right.
Joe Dillon [00:21:46]:
And I do think, like I said, cats out of the bag. The better educated our clients are, the better off my, my role as a mediator can be.
Joe Dillon [00:21:56]:
Right.
Joe Dillon [00:21:56]:
The better it is for me because I'm working with folks who understand what it takes and what they need to know.
Leah Hadley [00:22:01]:
Right, Absolutely. So we will include a link in the show notes to that course, really encourage people to check that out. Like I said before, I do think that mediation gets a bad reputation for a variety of reasons, but I think the biggest reason is that people enter mediation unprepared. And so the more that you can educate yourself and the more that you can understand the process and be prepared, the more successful you will be.
Joe Dillon [00:22:26]:
Yeah. And have realistic expectations.
Joe Dillon [00:22:29]:
Right, right.
Joe Dillon [00:22:29]:
You know, and one of the things that anybody knows in any relationship, whether it's with a friend, a family member, a customer service rep. Right. You know, one of the things that, you know, as a mediator you kind of know is if you, if you like, attack first, the person on the receiving end is immediately going to be, you know, back up to the wall. They're not going to want to help you.
Joe Dillon [00:22:51]:
Right.
Joe Dillon [00:22:52]:
So when you think about like the poor person at whatever company you're calling and you're like, your product is terrible. It's like, well, this person didn't make the product. You know, this person is trying to help you. Right. So if you go in, you put the guns in the holsters, if you will, and come in and willing to compromise, keeping emotions calm, trying to keep things in check, and then being able to have those conversations, you're going to get a lot Better result because, you know, people are going to. People want to help. I have learned that time and time again. You know, I teach negotiation, and I say, look, by definition, people I do believe are good and want to help, but they want to help nice people.
Joe Dillon [00:23:32]:
They want to help people that. That, like, kind of look like they need their help.
Joe Dillon [00:23:36]:
Right.
Joe Dillon [00:23:37]:
And if you explain what you need in a calm manner and you're able to, you know, make that emotional connection, that. That's where it happens.
Joe Dillon [00:23:45]:
Right.
Joe Dillon [00:23:45]:
That's where mediation can help. When people come in and say, well, you're the mediator. You're supposed to get me a $10,000 a month in alimony, it's like, no, that's not my job. My job is not to get you anything. It's to help have these conversations, create options. Sure. Explore these options. But ultimately, the decisions lie with the couple.
Joe Dillon [00:24:05]:
Right.
Joe Dillon [00:24:05]:
So that's kind of empowering you back in, which I think is a good thing, because, you know, with mediation, right, you get to decide. You create the agreement, not some third party who you just walked into their courtroom and it's like, yeah, I don't like your haircut. Guess what? She gets the house or he gets it.
Joe Dillon [00:24:20]:
Right.
Joe Dillon [00:24:20]:
You're like, that happens. People forget that judges are people. They. There's no, like, you know, this isn't like TV where justice is served because some person bursts into the courtroom crying, and the judge says, oh, I feel terrible. You win. You know, that's not what this is.
Joe Dillon [00:24:35]:
Right.
Joe Dillon [00:24:36]:
So we want to empower people to do that. And that is part of that education and understanding what mediation is as part of that educational process.
Leah Hadley [00:24:46]:
And I love that you mentioned, you know, going to court and not knowing what that outcome will be. Right, Right. Because that's one of the things that people always say is that I' just go to court and get right. Or my attorney says, if I go to court, I'll get right. But the reality is, boy, do I see some weird things coming out of court. Things that nobody would have expected, quite frankly. And you're right. Judges are people.
Leah Hadley [00:25:12]:
And so it's hard to say. And this really does give you a lot more power and control.
Joe Dillon [00:25:17]:
It does, yeah. And along those lines, what. You know, one of my favorite stories, right. I always keep everything confidential. It was a child support negotiation, and the gentleman was just adamant that he. He did not have to pay child support. Not that he didn't want to. He said, no, no, this is child support.
Joe Dillon [00:25:35]:
It's all a lie. It's all. It's A scam that does. It's not real. And I'm like, sir, it is. And here's the guideline, here's the calculator, and here's the statutes. You know, go read it online. And I said, what do you think's going to happen when you get into court?
Leah Hadley [00:25:51]:
Court?
Joe Dillon [00:25:51]:
And he's like, and I swear to you, without missing a beat, he just, big smile, like, leans back in his chair. He goes, I'm a likable guy. The judge is going to love me. When the judge sees me, he's going to say, don't worry about it. You don't have to pay child support. And I looked at him and I said, I was like, well, good luck with that, you know, because as a mediator, I can't tell you what to do.
Leah Hadley [00:26:17]:
Right.
Joe Dillon [00:26:18]:
But you know, you might want to reconsider that position and you may want to talk to an attorney about this because, yeah, that's not really how this works. And I don't think judges are going to take too kindly to that. Right. You know, and that's part of that education process. Right? When you see the stuff that happens and, and of course, like you said, you know, you see the opposite where, you know, judges push back for the strangest reasons. And you know, thankfully, you know, we haven't had too many problems in our, in our careers, but one. No kidding, I kid you not. One client called us from the, the courthouse, the hallway in the courthouse.
Joe Dillon [00:26:56]:
And the girl, the lady was crying. I'm like, what's the matter? And she's like, we didn't know we were supposed to paper clip it and not staple it. And the judge kicked us out of the courtroom. And now I'm on the phone and I'm like, first of all, I'm like, are you kidding me?
Joe Dillon [00:27:13]:
Right?
Joe Dillon [00:27:13]:
Because like, come on, right? This woman is in devastated because of a staple gun.
Joe Dillon [00:27:18]:
Right?
Joe Dillon [00:27:19]:
But that's the kind of stuff that, this is a true story. That's the kind of stuff that you never know what you're going to run into when you walk through those doors. And quite frankly, I think it was a New Jersey bar association that did this study. Only 2% of divorce cases make it to a judge. 2%, right. So you're, you're, you think you're going to get your day in, in court in front of the judge and like, the guy is going to say, I'm such a nice guy. Well, guess what? They are going to push you back to court ordered mediation, private mediation, your lawyers, collaborative doors they don't want you in there. They only want to handle the big, crazy cases you're fighting over.
Joe Dillon [00:27:55]:
The toaster is not important.
Joe Dillon [00:27:57]:
Right.
Joe Dillon [00:27:57]:
It's like they're saying, let it go. So that's why in mediation, we want to empower you to make those decisions and control your own destiny. Because then when the judge decides, chances are neither of you are happy.
Joe Dillon [00:28:08]:
Right.
Joe Dillon [00:28:09]:
So. And so now. Now what?
Joe Dillon [00:28:12]:
Right.
Joe Dillon [00:28:12]:
And it's not like we say on tv, where you going to appeal? It's like, yeah, I don't think that's how this works. You know, get out of my courtroom. Right. So that's. It's hard to explain that to people in the thick of it, but that's hopefully the message they're getting here, right? Is control your own future. Control your own destiny, right?
Leah Hadley [00:28:29]:
Yeah, absolutely. Joe, I could literally talk to you all day. I mean, honestly. But I do want to just, again, acknowledge how much I do appreciate the education and content that you put online. There is so much for people to learn without even talking to you. I mean, honestly, with going to your website. And so I really want people to reach out and see what. Joe.
Leah Hadley [00:28:55]:
And it's your wife, Cheryl, right?
Joe Dillon [00:28:57]:
Yeah, exactly. She's our divorce coach, so she handles the emotional side, you know, so that's important.
Joe Dillon [00:29:01]:
Right?
Joe Dillon [00:29:02]:
Don't underestimate the emotional piece.
Joe Dillon [00:29:04]:
Right?
Leah Hadley [00:29:04]:
That's right. So there's so much good content on all the various topics. Tell people where they can find out more about you, Joe.
Joe Dillon [00:29:11]:
Yeah, certainly. So the best place is our website, equitablemediation.com. so be real careful when you type it. I know there are. That's. Those are two hard words to spell. Equitable mediation dot com. And when you get there, you'll see up in the corner, resources, Right.
Joe Dillon [00:29:28]:
Resource center. That's where you'll find all this great content. And honestly, you'll see a button in the upper corner, and it literally says, talk to us.
Joe Dillon [00:29:35]:
Right?
Joe Dillon [00:29:36]:
Because we want you to feel comfortable. We're people, you know, we're humans. My parents litigated their divorce. Cheryl has been divorced. We've been where you or your kids are. And that talk to you button, you can schedule a free call with Cheryl. She'll explore mediation with you, see if it's right for you. If it makes sense, then you and your spouse can schedule a meeting with me.
Joe Dillon [00:29:56]:
And again, we're always trying to figure out if mediation is a good fit. And quite frankly, are we a good fit?
Joe Dillon [00:30:02]:
Right.
Joe Dillon [00:30:02]:
Because I'm asking a lot of you. I'm Asking you to do that discovery before the deciding. I'm asking you to actively participate. I'm really asking you to be involved in, in defining your future, right? And so, but go to the resource center. You'll find some of our most popular stuff up there, including that free course, right? In the courses and kits, there's a little button you can click. Take the course, read the stuff. It's all free, right? It's like, you know, we're not asking you for you. Click on the thing, read it.
Joe Dillon [00:30:30]:
You know, not trying to hoover up all your information like, you know, Facebook and everybody else does, right? You have to give your kidney to read an article. It's like, just click on it, read it, enjoy it, right? And. And you'll find also, you know, I should mention, you know, we practice in six different states, right? So we're in Washington, California, Illinois, New York, New Jersey, and Pennsylvania. And you'll also find state specific guides to divorce in each of those six states, right? Like how do things work? What are they called? What is the process? And a lot of frequently asked questions. So if you even go into the resource center, you'll see state specific guides. If you live in one of those six states, click on that. And those are all the most common questions we get asked. The old if I had a dollar for every time somebody asked me blank, right.
Joe Dillon [00:31:15]:
I'd be a millionaire. So we just made a big post is like, here's all the questions, right? Click on the answers, get educated, and then when you're ready, schedule a time to talk to us.
Leah Hadley [00:31:27]:
Fantastic. Well, thank you, Joe, for your time for being with us here today. Absolutely. It's been my pleasure. And for our audience, thank you for being with us. I know you're going through a difficult time right now. We're here to provide you with education, inspiration, and don't hesitate to reach out if you have questions or there's a topic that you want to hear more about. We want to make sure you're getting what you need.
Leah Hadley [00:31:48]:
We see you next week.
Leah Hadley [00:31:51]:
Thank you for joining me on Intentional Divorce Insights. It's a privilege to share this time with you. I hope each episode offers valuable guidance to navigate your journey. If you find our content helpful, please leave a review to help others discover the benefits of intentional decision making in divorce. Until next time, take care and continue to embrace your path with intention.
