Leah Hadley [00:00:01]:
Welcome to Intentional Divorce Insights. I'm Leah Hadley, certified divorce financial analyst, accredited financial counselor, and the founder of Intentional Divorce Solutions. I'll be your guide through the complexities of divorce, finance, and emotional wellness. Join me as we uncover practical tips and empowering insights to help you navigate your divorce with clarity and intention. Hi there, and welcome back to Intentional Divorce Insights. I have had the pleasure of getting to know doctor Carolyn Royster just for a few minutes here before we came on to record, and I am so looking forward to this interview. She is just a wealth of information. Let me tell you a little bit about her.
Leah Hadley [00:00:43]:
Doctor. Royster is a co parenting expert, child psychologist, and a mom. She lives in Paris in Colorado and is passionate about helping moms navigate the challenges of divorce and co parenting. With years of professional experience as a child psychologist and deep understanding of motherhood, she specializes in guiding moms through high conflict situations while keeping their children's emotional needs first. Doctor Royster's signature program, The Kids First Co Parenting System, which I'm really excited to learn more about, provides a high level of support for smart, high achieving moms who are juggling the very hard job of parenting young children while managing a difficult ex. Her approach help it helps moms move from feeling anxious to empowered and clear about how to support their children. Thank you so much for being here. Welcome.
Dr. Karalynn Royster [00:01:36]:
I'm so excited to be here to talk
Dr. Karalynn Royster [00:01:38]:
to you, Leah. Thanks for having me.
Leah Hadley [00:01:40]:
Oh, absolutely. So tell us a little bit about how you got in interested in co parenting and into this work.
Dr. Karalynn Royster [00:01:48]:
Yeah. Well, that's a great question, and it it it, it's been a journey. I'll say that. So one of the things is that I have I am a trained psychologist. So I have a therapy practice. I do a lot of teaching and supervising in that world. And when you work with kids, you work a lot with parents. And what I had started to see was parents, moms usually, calling me really worried about their kids.
Dr. Karalynn Royster [00:02:20]:
We're going through a divorce or we've been through a divorce. It's a mess. It's really, really hard. We know our kid is not doing okay, and we cannot find anybody to see them. Right? So mental health professionals are sometimes a little bit hesitant to work with families who are in these situations because it is so high conflict. Right? And it is really, really hard. And so I started to notice a real gap in finding services and support for kids. Right? And so as I started to dig into that and think about that, I really realized that more times than not, it's the parents that want support.
Dr. Karalynn Royster [00:03:03]:
Right? Right. The mom is saying, like, well, what do I do when they come home and say this? Or I know that I'm sending them into a situation that's not great. I have to. Right? How do I help them? How do I respond to that? What should I do? What should I do when she's up crying because she's had a nightmare? What should I do when my kid refuses to go to their to my co parent's house? Right? And so, yes, the the therapy approach is certainly appropriate for a lot of kids, and they need that. But there's also this really big other piece of how to support co parenting with parents because we know that that's what helps kids manage divorce. Right? Right. Is their parents being less conflictual and being able to navigate it. And so out of that, kind of begrudgingly over time, I started to realize, like, I have a real passion for this.
Dr. Karalynn Royster [00:03:57]:
I really love working with these families, moms in particular, and supporting kids in that way, and I can reach a lot more people than I can in one to one support. And so that's where Learn with Little House came from.
Leah Hadley [00:04:13]:
Yeah. Excellent. I love that. And it really is so important. And there are skills that parents can develop within the time that they're working with you or within the program that are going to last them, you know, through their parenting journey. And so that's just, such a great time to take a step back and kinda recognize that need. What are some of the signs that a child is struggling emotionally with divorce, and what can parents do to support them?
Dr. Karalynn Royster [00:04:40]:
Great question. So I wanna just normalize that kids are gonna struggle. Right? This is a huge change. There's often kind of a ripple effect of change on where they live, perhaps what school they go to, financial situations. Mom and or dad may have to change positions or work more or work less. Right? There's there's many layers of change, and we know that kids tell us they're struggling in very specific ways. Okay? So it they are going to have a hard time with it. Right? What you're when you should kinda get a little more worried or a little more concerned is when it's very prolonged, so it lasts quite a long time.
Dr. Karalynn Royster [00:05:28]:
Whether that's, you know, we've been doing this transition for a while, and it just isn't really getting a lot easier. Or kind of on a smaller scale, you know, when my daughter is upset, usually, I can calm her down within, you know, fifteen, twenty minutes, and now these big fits are lasting hours. Right? So a length of time or intensity of how they show you they're stressed. K? Little kids often show us that they're stressed, overwhelmed, struggling in the areas of their functioning, so bathrooming, sleeping, eating, and going about their daily lives. So their play with their peers or if they're a little bit older, going to school. So those are kind of the big areas we see, wow, they are not doing okay. That is my technical, kind of professional answer. My mom answer is, you know it.
Dr. Karalynn Royster [00:06:27]:
You know it in your gut. Right? Like, you you are up at night, and you're thinking, gosh. This something's not okay here. We're not doing great. I know my kid, and I know that they are not doing alright right now. Right? So I always tell moms, like, really trust that intuition, because it almost is never wrong.
Leah Hadley [00:06:47]:
Yeah. Yeah. Almost almost is never. Yeah. What can parents do to support their kids during that time?
Dr. Karalynn Royster [00:06:55]:
Yeah. So I think it really depends on what type of relationship you have with your co parent. So Okay. You know, there's there's certainly varieties of how that happens. I work with a lot of really high conflict families, and that adds this extra layer of stress because you don't have that co parent that you can be like, hey. I'm noticing this. What are you doing? What can I do? What can we do together? How do we support this? More often, my clients are asking for support when that collaboration isn't possible or is very difficult. And in that case, we really spend a lot of time talking about how to create stability and emotional stability in your in your control, in your time, in your house.
Dr. Karalynn Royster [00:07:46]:
And you do a lot of kind of mental work around. I can't control what happens over there. I'd love to. And maybe you're doing legal things behind the scenes, but for now, for today, for Tuesday, you can't. Right? And so what can you control? You can control how you show up for your kid on your time in your home. Right? And that stability gets carried with you. And so a lot of I call it kinda good parenting on steroids
Leah Hadley [00:08:16]:
Mhmm.
Dr. Karalynn Royster [00:08:16]:
Because it is a lot of just your typical good parenting skills, motion validation and structure and predictability and support, but it has to have this kind of extra layer because you're in a difficult co parenting situation.
Leah Hadley [00:08:33]:
That's so interesting. Yeah. Mhmm. I just think about my kinda evolution as a co parent. And I remember the first year, oh my God, the first year was the hardest just because we were still in that place where we were so angry. Yes. My kids were still young. My youngest was a toddler, and so he would scream when we would go back and forth between homes.
Leah Hadley [00:08:53]:
And it would just, like, shatter my heart every time. Yeah.
Leah Hadley [00:08:57]:
It was horrible.
Leah Hadley [00:08:57]:
And it didn't matter which way he was going. He just didn't wanna, you know, have that transition. And now we're to the point, and I'm so, so, so grateful. One of our kids is having a pretty significant challenge, and he and I met for coffee the other day to talk about, like, what's going on in my house, and what's going on in his house. And, like, how are we gonna deal with this? Because we're both at our wit's end. And it's a difficult situation, but I'm so grateful that we can sit down and have that conversation now. Right? Like, if we had been dealing with that this the first year, forget about it. There's no way Yeah.
Leah Hadley [00:09:28]:
We can have calmly we would have been, like, blaming each other. Like, I can just imagine how it would've been fun. But so nuts.
Dr. Karalynn Royster [00:09:36]:
There's two things that when I hear you talk about that. So the first is it is pretty normal to go through a period where you do more of that parallel parenting style. Yeah. Yeah. Because you're healing. Right? You're, you know, you're in that place where you're still like you said, you're still angry. What what and, you know, the other pieces that I think, you know, What what and, you know, the other piece is that I think you probably knew that your kiddo wasn't being hurt. Right? That they were safe in that other place.
Dr. Karalynn Royster [00:10:04]:
Right. And it breaks your heart, and it's horrible, but you can kind of come back to that of of knowing, like, they're okay. Right? I know they're gonna be okay. Right? Where it gets really tricky is when moms don't necessarily know that.
Leah Hadley [00:10:18]:
Right? Absolutely.
Dr. Karalynn Royster [00:10:20]:
And then I'll also add just how incredible it is that you and your co parent have gotten to that place of we can sit down and have a cup of coffee, and it may not be the easiest conversation, but it's pretty good. Right? Yeah. There's a reason you're not together. Right? Yeah. Like, Right? Like but it's civil and
Leah Hadley [00:10:41]:
it's the coffee. I remember. Yeah. Right.
Dr. Karalynn Royster [00:10:44]:
Right. It's respectful. It's, you know, it it's collaborative. And what I find is that anybody who's gotten to that point says this took a whole lot of work Yes. A whole lot of time.
Leah Hadley [00:10:58]:
Yeah.
Dr. Karalynn Royster [00:10:59]:
And that's what moms know that, but they don't know how to do that work always.
Leah Hadley [00:11:03]:
Yes. We are talking ten years after the fact that there Yes. Many years and many of the not so pretty moments for sure.
Dr. Karalynn Royster [00:11:11]:
Yeah. Of course. And that's part of the journey. Yeah. You know? Yeah. But good for you because we do know that that is what helps kids weather these big changes is eventually having parents you know, the less conflict, the better off kids are. That's just the truth of it, and that's really challenging for parents, of course. Of course.
Leah Hadley [00:11:34]:
Yeah. What does that really mean to create emotional security for young kids? And, like, how can you like, I know you can, but during a high conflict divorce, it just feels like the kids get lost in the mix. Like, what does that look like?
Dr. Karalynn Royster [00:11:49]:
Yeah. They do. They do sometimes. Right? So the emotional security that we're really talking about is a soft place to land. Right? So it's it's that felt emotional security that is provided through the relationship with a loving, attuned adult. K? So sometimes I talk about it, like, outside of co parenting because that can help. So I'll say, you know, we send our kids off to school every day. We don't know.
Dr. Karalynn Royster [00:12:22]:
That teacher could be horrible. The kids could be bullying them. Right? But you want your kids to have this deep knowledge inside them of no matter how hard things get out there, I can return home, and mom's gonna have me. Right? Mom's gonna be able to to talk it through with me, to help me plan how to navigate this, to let me know, like, that was not okay that someone treated you that way and practice skills to help you know what to do. Right? So it's that it is a felt sense of security that you get through a loving, attuned relationship. And when moms and their children do that well, kids carry that with them wherever they go. Right? This is a fancy way of talking about attachment security. That's what we're really talking about.
Leah Hadley [00:13:13]:
Okay.
Dr. Karalynn Royster [00:13:14]:
And so you get to carry that internal sense of I am good, I am safe, I am loved wherever you sort of bounce in your world. Right? And so we coach moms a lot around how to build that with their children so that they can carry it with them, especially when they know they're going into a not so great dynamic.
Leah Hadley [00:13:37]:
And I'm curious if you have any advice for moms that, you know, sometimes when people are headed toward divorce, there has been a lot of conflict in the home. Maybe they've lost some of that emotional security with their kids. Maybe that, you know, attachment has been damaged in some way. How do they come back from that?
Dr. Karalynn Royster [00:13:57]:
That is a good, very deep. We could do a whole podcast on just that, Leah. I think that it's mostly about consistency and predictability and showing up. Right? There's no such thing as a perfect parent. Right? There's good enough parenting is what we talk about and one of the aspects of that is being able to own when you do mess up with our kids and so coming back and being like, man, that was rough, and I wish you hadn't seen that, and I didn't act my best. I was yelling things and saying things I wish I hadn't, and I'm sorry you had to hear that. And then returning it always to their emotional experience and validating that. And then a huge thing for kids is reminding them that it's not your fault.
Dr. Karalynn Royster [00:14:50]:
Right. You didn't cause this, and you also can't fix it. Right. And I'm an adult, and I can take care of that. And so the short answer to what you've asked is time. Right? Not time. Time and consistently showing up, right, to heal that. K? So sometimes I talk with moms about, you know, you could have a thousand good interactions where you show up great, and you're, like, so attuned, and you're right there with them, and you're you're like, dang.
Dr. Karalynn Royster [00:15:21]:
If doctor Becky could see me now, like, I'm just killing this. Right? And then there's that one time, or there's three times, where things got really heated and messed up in the house, and kids saw something they shouldn't, or you yelled, or you responded in a way that you're like, oh, not proud of that. Right? Moms tend to focus on those three times.
Leah Hadley [00:15:44]:
Right.
Dr. Karalynn Royster [00:15:45]:
Right? But relationships are built on these thousands of tiny moments, and so you wanna kinda keep the scales tipped towards the positive instead of the negative, and that's giving yourself a lot of compassion and grace around that is very helpful as well.
Leah Hadley [00:16:02]:
Well, and even just that language of tipping the scale. Right? Like, it's just doing at least a little bit more right than wrong. Like, that feels very Yeah.
Dr. Karalynn Royster [00:16:10]:
We can handle that. Right? As moms, like, I just wanna be a little bit 51%. Yeah.
Leah Hadley [00:16:17]:
I think a lot of us really do struggle with the fact that there is no parent. Right? And that we often strive. We wanna you know, we care so much about our children, and we want Yes. That so much. But just hearing that and acknowledging that, I think, is so important.
Dr. Karalynn Royster [00:16:33]:
And perseverating on that one time.
Leah Hadley [00:16:36]:
Yeah.
Dr. Karalynn Royster [00:16:36]:
And then I'm often then I'm often saying things like, yeah, but what about the, like, 999 other times that it went well? Right.
Leah Hadley [00:16:45]:
Right. I
Dr. Karalynn Royster [00:16:45]:
guarantee you that has more of a cumulative effect
Leah Hadley [00:16:49]:
Mhmm.
Dr. Karalynn Royster [00:16:49]:
Than that 1%, and we gotta figure out how to let that go.
Leah Hadley [00:16:53]:
Right. Right. Absolutely. And that's hard work. Yeah. Yeah. So
Dr. Karalynn Royster [00:16:58]:
Yeah. We also need support with that.
Leah Hadley [00:17:00]:
Right? Oh, for sure. For sure. Mhmm. Speaking of support, I wanna hear more about this Kids First Co-Parenting System. I'm very curious to learn more about
Leah Hadley [00:17:08]:
it. Who's
Leah Hadley [00:17:09]:
it for? How does it help feel moms feel more confident and in control?
Dr. Karalynn Royster [00:17:14]:
Oh my gosh. I'm so happy you asked. So this is my this is my passion project. This is what I love to do. It's my favorite part of the week. Like, it's just I love this. So the Kids First Co-Parenting Program is really for moms. It needed to be a very safe place for women to talk specifically about motherhood and and how to co-parent.
Dr. Karalynn Royster [00:17:40]:
So that is the crux of it. We teach co parenting skills, of course, but we teach all of that through a lens of how do you keep your kids first through it. That's the name. Right? Right. How do you make sure your kids are okay while all this noise is going on around them? K. And so what does it look like? It looks like there is extensive online courses where you can watch videos. They're of me teaching specific skills, and so we talk about everything from transitions to how do you handle a CFI or a PRE, like a custody evaluation. Mhmm.
Dr. Karalynn Royster [00:18:19]:
What do you do when they don't wanna go? How do you handle not making your kid the messenger?
Dr. Karalynn Royster [00:18:25]:
What do you do with family debt dilemmas?
Dr. Karalynn Royster [00:18:28]:
Yeah. I mean, all anything and everything that moms have brought to me, I have made a video about. And so moms, you can move through it chronologically or you can say, you know, I'm really struggling with this piece, and you pop over and you watch that. Okay? So there's there's a self paced learning component to it. Okay? Then this other part, which I think is really where moms get the most value, is we have weekly group calls. We call them co parenting power hours. They're with me. Moms drop in.
Dr. Karalynn Royster [00:19:06]:
I have some people that come to every week. I have some people that come when something comes up. Right? And so these moms come in and we have this time where you can ask a specific question. You can say, you know, it's here in Colorado, it's the end of the school year. We're seeing a lot of big behaviors. What should we do? You know, for your kiddo, you might bring that and say, this is what he says. This is what I say. What do you think? Right? It's your chance to basically pick a child psychologist's brain about what to do in these dynamics.
Dr. Karalynn Royster [00:19:38]:
Right? And so the whole point of the program is to give moms tools and to give moms support, right? A lot of support groups and things online are very venti, very focused on complaining about your co parent and we really really strive to avoid that. Now, you can complain. You can say, This really sucks. And I will tell you, Yes, it does. Yeah. But I'm gonna also give you some tools about how to handle it. Right? Because so many times moms are just like, I don't know what to do. Yeah.
Dr. Karalynn Royster [00:20:13]:
I know my kid's not okay but I don't know what to do and so the whole program is designed around that. Yeah. So, it's it's mostly online and, has a group community components. You can ask questions but you get a lot a lot of support from me directly.
Leah Hadley [00:20:32]:
And there are some great ways where people can get to know you a little better for no cost. Like, you have a free master class coming up. What is that?
Dr. Karalynn Royster [00:20:40]:
Yeah. So I run a master class pretty regularly because I find parents wanna ask me this a lot, moms in particular. So I have a master class that I run about once a month about how to handle a difficult ex. So, really, once you're starting to get into this place of this is not friendly anymore, we are not having civil communications, that course gives you some really good tools to just get started. Right, with setting boundaries, knowing how to respond, knowing what not to respond, common mistakes that I see moms make. Like, if I could sit you down at the beginning and say, don't do this, you would get that. So that is a resource that we use often. That master class is readily available.
Dr. Karalynn Royster [00:21:31]:
I speak on my YouTube channel about a lot of these things.
Leah Hadley [00:21:34]:
Oh, I'm gonna have
Leah Hadley [00:21:34]:
to check that
Leah Hadley [00:21:35]:
out. Excellent.
Dr. Karalynn Royster [00:21:36]:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's growing. It's growing. Right? Getting into it. And then Instagram, I'm pretty active on there, and so that's where folks can find me. Also, Learn With Little House has tons of great free resources.
Dr. Karalynn Royster [00:21:51]:
I have a book list. I have some free guides, some free handouts, things like that. Excellent.
Leah Hadley [00:21:57]:
Well, we will include all kinds of links in the show notes so you all can find those resources easily. Doctor Royster, thank you so much for joining me today. This has been such a great conversation. I could literally I mean, I'm a mom. I could talk to you all day long.
Dr. Karalynn Royster [00:22:13]:
I could talk to you too. We should. We'll get coffee next time you're in Colorado.
Leah Hadley [00:22:17]:
That sounds great. That sounds great. Yes. And for our listeners, thank you for being here with us this week, and we will see you next week. Thank you for joining me on Intentional Divorce Insights. It's a privilege to share this time with you. I hope each episode offers valuable guidance to navigate your journey. If you find our content helpful, please leave a review to help others discover the benefits of intentional decision making in divorce.
Leah Hadley [00:22:42]:
Until next time, take care and continue to embrace your path with intention.
