Leah Hadley [00:00:01]:
Welcome to Intentional Divorce Insights. I'm Leah Hadley, certified divorce financial analyst, accredited financial counselor, and the founder of Intentional Divorce Solutions. I'll be your guide through the complexities of divorce, finance, and emotional wellness. Join me as we uncover practical tips and empowering insights to help you navigate your divorce with clarity and intention. Hi there. And welcome back to Intentional Divorce Insights. We're covering an important topic today, and I know many of you do have children with special needs. And when you are going through a divorce, that can make things a little bit more complicated.
Leah Hadley [00:00:40]:
And we have a specialist here today. It's my pleasure to welcome Mary Ann Hughes who is a thought leader in the field of special needs divorce and she started Special Family Transitions to help parents navigate the overwhelm and complexities of divorce involving a child with a disability. As a certified special needs divorce coach, mediator, and parenting coordinator, Mary Anne's mission is to help parents consider and advocate for the special needs of their children while reducing the time, stress, and expense involved in divorce and coparenting challenges. Welcome, Mary Anne. Thank you so much for being with us.
Mary Ann Hughes [00:01:18]:
Thank you, Leah. Pleasure to be here today.
Leah Hadley [00:01:21]:
Awesome. Mary Anne, I'm just so curious. What inspired you to start Special Family Transitions? How did you get into this work?
Mary Ann Hughes [00:01:28]:
Right. So I'm a mom of two, now young adult children on opposite ends of the autism spectrum. And several years ago, I had to go through divorce and didn't really know how to approach that or how to advocate for my kids or what I needed to do to make sure that we all got a good result as part of the process. And so I eventually got there, found experts I needed to connect with to help me through my process, but decided that the time, money, and effort that I spent really shouldn't have to be something that all families go through considering the high rate of divorce with special needs children. And so that's why I decided to form a Special Family Transitions, become a certified divorce coach, specializing in special needs families. And that's what I'm honored to do now is support families, navigate the overwhelming complexities that are involved in the process So it can be done in an intentional way.
Leah Hadley [00:02:22]:
Fantastic. I love it when, people start their work out of their own personal experience. It just adds this whole other layer of empathy that people who just haven't been there, it's just hard, you know? And especially dealing with divorce is difficult in and of itself. But when you involve children with special needs, there are some additional complexities. And I'm curious to hear from you. Why do you like, what do you see as different, in a divorce with a child with a disability versus without?
Mary Ann Hughes [00:03:00]:
Sure. So the biggest factor for me in terms of, my kids and getting us all through the divorce was what was gonna happen to my kids and how would be supported in the future, as they're becoming adults and and beyond that as well. So a lot of times divorce, they only think about, up until age 18. And then after that, it becomes, something they think about in the future. But for me, I spent a lot of time and energy trying to make sure that my children's needs going forward would be met and discussed as part of the divorce discussions and agreements.
Leah Hadley [00:03:36]:
Okay. Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. And I've heard you in the past talk about focusing on the approach to divorce as with a business mindset instead of, you know, making those emotionally based decisions. Why is that so important, especially when there is a child with special needs involved?
Mary Ann Hughes [00:03:55]:
Yeah. So I come from a business background. I have an MBA, so I kind of have that that way of thinking anyway. And so my, former spouse used to joke that, I always had to have a project. Well, this became my project in terms of getting through the divorce and figure out what we had to do and what the cost would be in terms of my kids. And I know you being a financial, person that that becomes, top priority for a lot of families. And that really is one of the biggest stressors is how are we going to make it? How are my kids gonna make it, for what they need to reach their full potential? And so there's a lot of things you want to do as well in terms of how the kids, whatever whatever age they might be, how they're gonna deal with the transitions as well and the emotional aspects to the kids, but also as the parent going through it. Sometimes we're so overwhelmed by the emotion, we're not really making clear, good decisions for our future.
Mary Ann Hughes [00:04:51]:
And so that's one of my roles is to help people go, like you said, from emotional divorce to thinking about it as a business and financial and legal transaction. Kinda sounds harsh to say and hard to hear sometimes. But really at the end of the day, we're trying to, come to agreement on what may be one of the biggest business deals of your life, trying to figure out who gets what and how we're gonna plan for the future. And so it's important to to come at that in a way that considers what the impact will be to you and your kids, going forward.
Leah Hadley [00:05:25]:
Yeah. It is so important. And there there is a lot of emotion when it comes to talking about your children and especially if you're feeling like your children are especially vulnerable. Right? I know I've had some very difficult mediations where one of the parents, was really committed to a particular diagnosis and providing the support that the child needed based on that diagnosis, and the other one just didn't buy into the diagnosis at all. And so that's a very difficult conversation when we're not even on the same playing field in terms of, you know, what the parent parental expectations are and what kind of supports needed and all of that. Do you find that at all when you're working with people?
Mary Ann Hughes [00:06:07]:
I find that a lot. I think it's very common that, both parents are not on the same page in terms of the child's disability and the impact it will have on their future. So part of it is the grief cycle. Maybe each parent is processing the diagnosis and that child's abilities and plans for the future in a in a different way. It could be that maybe one parent sees one side of what the child can do. Whereas another parent maybe who's involved in a different way doesn't see those moments where the child is struggling or or having difficulty and having behavior issues. Maybe they're seeing a different side of that child so for that reason, they may not be on the same page. So I would say, before you get into mediation, this is something that, that was important to me in my process as well as I advise other people is try to get on the same page or at least share information beforehand, before you're in an in a situation where you're, having to, have a conflict about the diagnosis.
Mary Ann Hughes [00:07:12]:
Try to come and share ahead of time if you can, maybe doctors reports, therapists, different people who are who are supporting that child to be able to share. Okay. This is this is the child's diagnosis, and this is what they need. And maybe these are the kind of programs that can help our child to be the best they can. So nobody wants anything bad for their child. We all want the best. But I say hope a plan for the worst, but hope for the hope for the best, but plan for the worst. So meaning we want we want our child to be as independent as we can, but how do we get there? You have to maybe put safeguards and plans in place, and that may include additional child support.
Mary Ann Hughes [00:07:54]:
It may include extra provisions or different kind of parenting plan to, to protect that child and and build up their ability to be as independent as they can in the future. Yeah.
Leah Hadley [00:08:07]:
And you mentioned maybe a different kind of parenting plan. I certainly find that to be true. In some cases, having the flexibility and the, structure in place to make adjustments to that parenting plan. Right? Especially if you are, divorcing and your children are still young and quite frankly you don't know what they're gonna need, right? Their needs can evolve over time and so having the flexibility within that plan to be able to meet those needs becomes so important. But what do you see in terms of the parenting plans for families with special needs? Like, are you seeing anything in specific that you wanna make sure gets included or not included? Things like that.
Mary Ann Hughes [00:08:46]:
Sure. And so as you mentioned, depending on the child's challenges and, for instance, if they're neurodiverse in some way, predictability and consistency is important to someone like that. And so you don't want to have perhaps a lot of changes back and forth between homes. You wanna have as consistent a schedule as you can so the child has less anxiety and can know what to expect when they're gonna be with mom, when they're gonna be with dad. And hopefully, within that time, they have access to each parent. And this is hopefully good communication between parents. But we definitely want to promote as positive and loving environment as we can. And that for the child can know can know, okay, you know, I'm with with mom coming up these days and dad these days or I have access to both, I think makes a big difference.
Mary Ann Hughes [00:09:37]:
And so, yeah, things things like that and getting even the school involved and therapists involved to understand that they're part of the team supporting that child and that family as well.
Leah Hadley [00:09:50]:
Absolutely. And, you mentioned the team and you've mentioned some different professionals who might be involved with the process. Talk to us a little bit about some some of the team members that you work with.
Mary Ann Hughes [00:10:02]:
Sure. So first, you wanna have a attorney, family law attorney who has experience working with special needs cases. So there's so many complexities that have to be addressed so that the child maintains their eligibility for benefits, government benefits now and potentially in the future. And so that involves not just a, family law attorney, but also an estate planning attorney so they can help you develop and and and draft the first and third party special needs trust. And then you also want and also said planning for the future. So maybe you consider guardianship and part of your initial discussions as to what that might look like in the future because that's something that you're gonna have to even the child is young is something that may be a factor and something you wanna consider. So you wanna start having those discussions about thinking about the long term, what might that look like. Also, you wanna involve a special needs financial planner who, has experience with that maybe helping you come to good numbers in terms of negotiation in your mediations and other discussions you would have about what are the programs out there? What do they cost? And what are the monies that may be coming in for government programs, for instance, which aren't assured.
Mary Ann Hughes [00:11:19]:
So I don't want people to rely on that. But we want to look at what are the costs are now as well as what they might be as you're coming up with, support and ways to address those child's needs, whether the financial needs or other needs, as well. And then, of course, having a mental health professional can be helpful as well for the parent and for the child, as well as possibly being an expert, as we mentioned earlier about showing where the challenges are for the child and what will be in their benefit to continue in terms of supports and then things that they may need, throughout the process and from each parent.
Leah Hadley [00:11:59]:
Yeah. And where does the divorce coach fit into all of that?
Mary Ann Hughes [00:12:02]:
And of course. Yeah. So as a divorce coach, we're there kind of helping somebody throughout the whole process. So, we can help connect you with resources, help you manage your emotions, and plan for the future. So, I mentioned about the project plan. So divorce can be overwhelming and can be all consuming. And so I try to help my clients break things down maybe one step at a time, understand what their goals are and priorities are in the divorce, and and have them think about the long term. Like you said, sometimes we're just focused on, getting through that divorce and that mediation, but we're not thinking about what's gonna happen afterwards.
Mary Ann Hughes [00:12:45]:
So I try to get people think about divorce as a finite process and then also plan about what's life gonna be after divorce in terms of, you know, how do you wanna show up, the example we want to, to to have there for our kids and for others that we're working with in the process and afterwards, because this is the opportunity to really present your child's needs in a way that all parties can understand. And so we want to look back on this time as one that we're proud of and how we handled ourselves, how we communicated our needs and those of our children because we're our children's biggest advocate. And as a as a mom of a child with special needs, we're very involved in their daily lives, especially in the educational system. And so I would encourage people to take that same approach in in a divorce. You're advocating for your child when maybe your child is not verbal, that they need that support from from others to help, with what they need in the future, whether it's educational plan or future, plans for for, what's to come.
Leah Hadley [00:13:50]:
Mary Ann, what do you see as some of the most common conflicts that arise with some of these cases, and how have you seen them resolved?
Mary Ann Hughes [00:14:00]:
Yeah. So as you mentioned, sometimes people are not on the same page about disability. That becomes a driving factor. And some of that, you know, we talked about for can be for different reasons emotionally or maybe someone there is not accepting, but sometimes financially driven because some people may have been advised by different members of their team that if they maybe dispute the diagnosis or say that it's maybe not as severe, then maybe they won't have to pay as much child support or maybe for a longer duration. So, for example, depending on where you are and this is specific to, each state has their own laws. But in Texas, where I am, for instance, you can have indefinite child support and above guideline child support. And so that becomes a point of discussion and a point of conflict because then people are gonna want to maybe, downplay some of the needs so that the support maybe looks different.
Leah Hadley [00:14:54]:
Right. Yeah. And I do think, especially when you're dealing with young children, you just sometimes don't know the kind of support that they're gonna need, right, in the future.
Mary Ann Hughes [00:15:06]:
That's right. And so so the good thing is you can always go back and modify. So if a child is young, perhaps the diagnosis has not yet been made available, or become a parent that maybe you have another child that maybe is not diagnosed at the time you're getting divorced and maybe, at least use some traits later on. And so you can always go back and modify and discuss things. And so, I would say if you can come to agreement that the child has a disability, at least state that in the paperwork so that later if you have to go back and modify and make some adjustments, then at least it's there as a reference points of the judges or, I from my experience and what I've heard, are more willing to support that as opposed to never having been mentioned in the paperwork at all.
Leah Hadley [00:15:52]:
Yeah. And I wanna circle back to you. We're talking about the team approach and the various professionals that can really support a family. I know a lot of people when they hear about all these different professionals get very overwhelmed by the thought of having to pay for all of these people, because quite frankly, all these professionals, you know, add up over time. But I would just reiterate one of the things that I heard Mary Ann saying was working with professionals who have experience specifically with families with children with special needs. So even if you can't surround yourself with the entire team, at least having somebody like Mary Ann on your side who has a wealth of resources that she's able to share, can really allow you to fill in some of those gaps, even if you can't have that whole team in place. So I just wanna encourage people. You know, one of the things that people often say is that, you know, sometimes when somebody specializes in a particular area that they cost more. Right? But Mary Ann knows so much more about the resources available for families with children with special needs than I do.
Leah Hadley [00:16:56]:
It actually would take her a lot less time to be able to give you that information and provide those resources. Whereas I would be doing significant amount of research, the time it would take would be well, I'd probably just call Mary Ann to be honest. You get what I'm saying.
Mary Ann Hughes [00:17:13]:
Yeah. No. That's a great question because people do, you know, have to have those questions and concerns. And I can tell you when I went through it, I didn't have a divorce coach. I didn't know there were divorce coaches back then. And if I had had one, it probably could have cut my, the time and the money I spent on my divorce probably in half because I went through a lot of things to my lawyer, perhaps, that maybe would have been best addressed by a divorce coach or someone that had the information or with even with a mental health professional to kind of deal with the other issues, emotional side that we were talking about that tends to maybe sometimes overtake, the the time and our energy in divorce. And so as a coach, I tell you know, try to get people to as focused as they can be on what needs to be done and bringing it back to to that as opposed to, thinking about this or what happened in the past or what, you know, what what do we need to worry about in the future.
Mary Ann Hughes [00:18:11]:
We wanna focus on the task at hand, what we need to get done by certain times to be able to get through the process, in the best, and efficient way possible for sure. Yeah. So I find, as I mentioned, there are things that will come back and have a negative consequence if we don't take care of them correctly. For instance Sure. That's why we wanna have the state planning people and the trust in place because if your child does end up getting, being eligible to get benefits, Those you may not get the full amount of benefits. You may not get the benefits or they'd be they they can be taken away because you haven't done things in the proper way. And then that ends up costing you more. And and and and there's a, you know, risk to that child in terms of the money they could have received, and then it costs money to go back and fix it later.
Mary Ann Hughes [00:19:02]:
So you wanna try to do it right the first time if you can. It may be a little bit of investment upfront, but it's gonna have a lot of savings later for you. But definitely, I agree that, yeah, it's it's gonna cost you more potentially if you don't have experts involved.
Leah Hadley [00:19:19]:
Right. Right. Oh, so many important points there. Mary Ann, you were sharing a resource with me before we got started, recording. Could you share that with our audience? I'm sure people would love to know about it. Sure. So as I mentioned before, I didn't know
Mary Ann Hughes [00:19:32]:
that there are resources out there as we're talking about today. And so, I found I found it hard even though I had, you know, great, people that I was connected with in my community. A lot of them didn't have special needs experience. It was really hard for me to find a financial person and planner who had who could help me and help me, deal with a life care plan and things like that. So to be points of discussion. And so a colleague, of mine, another certified divorce coach who does also the special needs work, Susan and I put together a website called divorce with special needs children. And in that, we're sharing, different resources that we wish we had when we were going through divorce to help us before, during, and after divorce, supporting us and our children who have a disability. And so there, we have mediators, financial planners, mental health professionals, everybody that you could use in your divorce where they're trying to collect, so have them join us as our trusted member of people that we've we've vetted and that we trust so that we can share them with others.
Mary Ann Hughes [00:20:42]:
And so if you're a professional listening to this and have experience in this field, we'd love to have you join us in that. And if you're a parent going through it, check it out and see what they have to offer and what kind of support you might need. A lot of them do work across the country so we can do things virtually, as well. Fantastic. And what was that website again? It's divorcewithspecialneedschildren.com.
Leah Hadley [00:21:05]:
Perfect. And I will include that in the show notes as well. So if you are listening to this, you'll be able to just click on that and go check that out. I just think that's such a fantastic resource. And Mary Ann also contributed a chapter to a book and has generously offered to give our listeners a copy of that chapter. Mary Ann, how can people access that?
Mary Ann Hughes [00:21:26]:
Yeah. So the best way is to email me at [email protected] and then to, find my resources. My website is specialfamilytransitions.com and all my social media is under that name as well. I have tons of resources I share, podcasts I've done that are there as well. I also have a YouTube channel under that name. And one thing I want to share there is we talked about ways to support kids in the transitions. And so there, I had created a video, for my kids when I was going through because part of it is, what we talked about is reducing their anxiety, and and I had a hard time finding mental health professionals that could work with my kids because one of them was nonverbal and really couldn't sit through a counseling session. So there, I have a video, for example, on creating a social story as one way to prepare children who may be new driver, neurodiverse in terms of what to expect, in a divorce.
Leah Hadley [00:22:23]:
Terrific. Wonderful. So make sure you check out her resources. We'll include all those links below in the show notes. And I'm just curious, Mary Ann, what's one piece of advice you wish every parent going through a special needs divorce knew?
Mary Ann Hughes [00:22:37]:
I would say, take your time. Don't rush. And, you know, to a nod to your podcast name and be intentional in your divorce. This is not something that we want to do, especially if we're not comfortable with the impact it might have or not understanding the impact it would have to ourselves and to our kids. So take the time to really understand what's important to you and to your kids and to your future and to their future. So that when you're making decisions in divorce, you're really taking those things into account as opposed to just trying to get it done and having not considered those things that are really going to impact you going forward.
Leah Hadley [00:23:20]:
Good advice. Thank you so much, Mary Ann, for joining us today. I really appreciate it.
Mary Ann Hughes [00:23:24]:
Thank you. My pleasure.
Leah Hadley [00:23:26]:
And for our audience, we look forward to seeing you next week. Thank you for joining me on Intentional Divorce Insights. It's a privilege to share this time with you. I hope each episode offers valuable guidance to navigate your journey. If you find our content helpful, please leave a review to help others discover the benefits of intentional decision making in divorce. Until next time, take care and continue to embrace your path with intention.
