Leah Hadley [00:00:01]:
Welcome to Intentional Divorce Insights. I'm Leah Hadley, certified divorce financial analyst, accredited financial counselor, and the founder of Intentional Divorce Solutions. I'll be your guide through the complexities of divorce, finance, and emotional wellness. Join me as we uncover practical tips and empowering insights to help you navigate your divorce with clarity and intention.
Leah Hadley [00:00:25]:
Hi there, and welcome back to Intentional Divorce Insights. I am thrilled to introduce our guest today. Tamar Barbash is an accredited breakup and divorce coach as well as a former social worker who helps clients focus on the upside, that's right, the upside of divorce. She says every ending is a new beginning, and no matter how one comes to divorce, it is always an opportunity. The possibilities are endless. Such an empowering statement. Welcome, Tamar. Thanks for being with us.
Tamar Barbash [00:00:55]:
Thanks so much for having me.
Leah Hadley [00:01:01]:
My pleasure. So tell us a little bit about how you got into the work that you do. | 00:00:55.725 - 00:01:00.270
Tamar Barbash [00:01:03]:
So as you said, I started my career as a social worker. I stopped seeing clients when I had my second child, and it was just not financially sound to continue the job I had while raising two kids. So I stopped working for a while. And then, in May of 2022, my marriage ended. And I just sort of started thinking, like, you know, this whole process is so unpleasant. And even in the best of circumstances, because my split from my husband really wasn't there was no animosity really at all. And even then, it's just it's unpleasant. There's a feeling of failure.
Tamar Barbash [00:01:42]:
There are stigmas attached to it. There's adjusting to a different social, you know, circle. There's adjusting, you know, your kids transitioning. There's just all these pieces of it that are so challenging even in the best of circumstances. And for a lot of people, it's not the best of circumstances. So I just started thinking, I'm always looking for ways to help other people. That's why I went into social work in the first place. And with the end of my marriage came this need to get back into the workforce.
Tamar Barbash [00:02:12]:
So all of those things kind of combined led me here. And I got my accreditation through Sarah Davidson School in The UK, and it's been, like, a really exciting journey to meet people at this stage of their lives and to help them see the positive side of getting to start over.
Leah Hadley [00:02:30]:
Fantastic. Where do you think that stigma and that kinda idea of failure as it relates to divorce, where do you think that comes from?
Tamar Barbash [00:02:40]:
I think it comes from the idea that marriage is supposed to be forever. That is just how people see it. Right? That's how vows are written. That's how we that's what we think of. We think of marriage is gonna be for the rest of our lives. And so once you have that idea in your head, anything that's less than that is a failure. If staying married for the rest of your life is success, then not staying married for the rest of your life is failure. And so I think those are sort of that binary that I'm pushing back against.
Tamar Barbash [00:03:10]:
I always say, like, if you were married for ten years and you have two kids and and you, you know, during that time, you started a career or you did this or you did that, then there's nothing to there's no failure about it. Then you had a successful ten years, and now you've reached the end of that chapter. And if that wasn't the case, if the years of marriage were tumultuous, were difficult, or did not feel enjoyable, were hurtful, were harmful, then then it can only be seen, as far as I'm concerned, as a success to choose to get out and start over and make better choices that are gonna give you more fulfillment and satisfaction in your life.
Leah Hadley [00:03:47]:
Such a good point. And I think there are so many myths as it relates to divorce itself that really lead us to believe that it is just a failure. What What do you think some of those myths are that you're seeing?
Tamar Barbash [00:04:00]:
So it's funny. I compare the way we look at marriage a lot to the way that diet culture has, like, blown up in our society. So I think of it like this. Right? Like, we we have metrics that we use to measure things that aren't actually accurate metrics. So when I talk about it in as it relates to diet culture, I always say, like, we have this idea that thinness is somehow connected to health. And so if you see somebody who's skinny, you're immediately like, wow. You look amazing, or you must be so healthy. And whether or not they're they've lost weight because they're ill, they've lost weight because they're not eating, they're starving themselves, they're throwing up, whatever it is.
Tamar Barbash [00:04:38]:
We don't even care how they got there. We just care what the end result is, and we we equate that with healthiness and wellness even if it has nothing to do with that. And so I look at marriage in the same sort of way. We look at longevity as success. Right? We wish people happy anniversaries. We never ask, like, is your marriage good? Are you happy? It's just you made it to five years. You made it to ten years. You made it to fifteen years.
Tamar Barbash [00:05:04]:
And so I don't think we have accurate metrics for how we gauge whether a marriage is actually successful or not. And and the other thing is that I think that marriage is supposed to be this relationship between two people. But what happens is once you're married, once the wedding takes place, all these other things get built around it. Right? You build a community. You build a family. You buy a house together. All these things that you know, when you think about a divorce as just, like, the same thing as, like, a high two kids in high school breaking up, like, it's just the end of a relationship. But if you think about it in terms of all the things that have been built on top of it that now also have to come crashing down, it becomes overwhelming to think about ending it.
Tamar Barbash [00:05:52]:
So I think that's a big piece of it is is all the things that get built on top of the foundational relationship. So if that foundational relationship isn't working, there's a lot of pressure to keep it going just so that you don't have to have the whole house of cards fall down.
Leah Hadley [00:06:09]:
Yeah. Absolutely. Do you feel like kind of the way people think about divorce keeps them stuck in unhealthy situations longer than they should be?
Tamar Barbash [00:06:20]:
Yes. That is like my founding thesis. I do absolutely think that. I think the I think on top of everything I've already said, the process, the legal process is also so miserable and makes people so unhappy and is so scary to think about entering into that I think people stay paralyzed. And I think it's a lot of that, you know, the devil you know being better than the devil you don't know. And even if you're unhappy, even if you feel stuck, even if you feel anything negative within your relationship, sometimes, often even, the staying just feels easier than embarking on that journey. And I often say, like, look. Taking the first steps toward divorce, especially if you're in a relationship, that's, like, fine.
Tamar Barbash [00:07:06]:
Like, you're not being abused. You're not married to a narcissist. You know, there's a lot of that in the divorce field right now is focusing on narcissism. It's focusing on abuse. It's empowering women to get out. That's really not where I come from as a divorce coach. Like, I'm much more, I do work with people who are going through those experiences, but I also am much more honest about the fact that sometimes relationships just run their course, and and nobody has to be, like, the mean one or the abuser or anything like that. It's just possible to outgrow each other.
Tamar Barbash [00:07:37]:
And and so, you know, I I that's really where I come at it from. It's just sometimes you can have two people who outgrow each other. And and and the idea of throwing a grenade at that at, you know, at at something that's really working fine. You're just not happy. You know? We don't empower people really to say, like, wait. My happiness is actually a good enough reason to to uproot all of these different things. We don't empower people to feel that way. And so they stick with it because this way, their kids can have one house or this way, they don't have to move or they don't have to do any number of things that are that are hard even though, ultimately, they would be better for, likely, not just themselves, but for everybody involved.
Leah Hadley [00:08:23]:
It's so true. And I'm wondering how you help your clients to kinda reframe the way they think about a marriage ending, to really empower them to move forward.
Tamar Barbash [00:08:35]:
So it's a lot of these kinds of conversations and just looking at things from different angles. I think also the ending of a relationship is a really powerful time when we allow the rose colored glasses to come off. You know, we spend a lot of time when we're in a relationship ignoring certain things because we really wanna make the relationship work. And so once I'm working with somebody whose relationship is coming to an end, it gives us the freedom to really look at things with clearer eyes and kind of be honest about things that didn't work, moments that didn't feel good, times that our needs weren't being met. And and that can sometimes, you know, help shift a perspective in terms of realizing I want those things. I want somebody who actually really meets my needs, who really sees me. The person I was married to was a great person. They just didn't really get me.
Tamar Barbash [00:09:21]:
You know? They didn't really understand my needs, whatever whatever those things are. And then I also like to start with small things. You know? It's like, okay. So now you have this freedom. What are some super small things like takeout places or movies, you know, that your partner didn't enjoy, that you can now order that Indian food that you haven't had in twelve years because your partner didn't like Indian food, and so you just stopped ordering it. You know? Or or what is the, like, genre of movie that you love watching and you haven't watched a horror movie or you haven't watched a rom com in all these years because your partner never wanted to watch one, and now you can. And so I think the frame I really try and look the lens I really try and look through this with is that it's such a time of rediscovery. And even in the best of relationships, I think you lose parts of yourself because there's so much compromise, and divorce is an opportunity to really rediscover who you are.
Tamar Barbash [00:10:22]:
You know? I know people who stopped writing when they got married, and then their writing careers took off after their divorces. You know? I know people who were artists or singers or whatever, and they stopped doing those things when they got married because they had to get a real job or they had to raise their kids or whatever it is. And now they have time again to rediscover those parts of themselves that they really loved. And so that's something I also try and really encourage people to do.
Leah Hadley [00:10:47]:
Fantastic. What do you think makes those particular individuals, some of the examples that you gave, so open to embracing change after divorce? Because I know a lot of people feel really stuck.
Tamar Barbash [00:11:00]:
So it depends. The hardest ones, I think, to embrace the change or the positive sides are the ones for whom divorce was thrust upon them and not, you know, necessarily what they would have wanted. But what's so interesting to me about those people is that often, they never would have chosen divorce on their own for any number of ideas that they already had in their head about why they couldn't. But having it thrust upon them is almost like this gift where it's like, okay. This wasn't what you would have chosen, but now it's here. And, actually, you know, in a few years from now, you're gonna see that this was a good thing. And I always say, you know, there's that expression where people say, you know, you know you know you've healed when you're indifferent as opposed to, like, hating the person. You know, hate isn't the opposite of love.
Tamar Barbash [00:11:50]:
Indifference is the opposite of love. And I always say, you know you're healed when you're ready to say thank you. Because I really think in almost every case, had the marriage continued, it wouldn't actually have been fulfilling and loving and happy. We just get this idea in our head that that's what it's supposed to be and if we had just been able to hold it together. But in most cases, it wouldn't have been. And somebody coming to you and saying, I want a divorce, as painful as that is, is freeing you from being married to someone who doesn't want to be married to you. And if we can get our egos to recover from that rejection and that heartache of being sort of, like, pushed aside and felt and that feeling that ego crushing of feeling like we're not being chosen, then there's the reality of, like, oh, well, if you don't wanna be with me, why would I ever wanna be with you? And so that's, you know, something that I try. I tell my clients all the time.
Tamar Barbash [00:12:47]:
You know, if you talk to a 12 year old kid who says, like, you know, I've had conversations with with middle school girls who say, like, those girls are so mean to me. They're so hot and cold. They're on and off. Sometimes they invite me. Sometimes they don't. And I've said I've said to these girls, like, can I just ask you a question? Have you ever taken a moment to stop and think and ask yourself, do I wanna be friends with them? Like, are they my type of people? And I think often in marriages, we stop assessing because it's forever. You get married in 2000, you're married till 2060. Like, there's no reason to do constant assessments because it doesn't matter.
Tamar Barbash [00:13:21]:
You're you're in it. So we stop really kind of evaluating whether or not our marriages are working for us. And a lot of the times, they're not, but we just aren't conscious of it. And so if your partner walks in and says, I don't wanna do this anymore, it's an opportunity for you to kind of, like, flip the lights on and say, okay. Let me take stock of how this is really going. And every once in a while, you have someone who really was very happy and very fulfilled by their by their person, and the fact that they've been rejected is extremely painful. But more often than not, if people are being honest, there's a lot that wasn't working for them. Also, they were just gonna be willing to ignore it for the rest of their lives, and now they can't.
Tamar Barbash [00:13:58]:
And I never see that as a bad thing.
Leah Hadley [00:14:01]:
So I love the way that you kinda talk about divorce and kinda reframe how we think about divorce. It it's I'm sure it's very inspiring for the people who are listening. But for someone who's still in the thick of it, maybe they're feeling guilty, ashamed, or, like, somehow they failed, what advice would you give them to help them start moving forward just a little bit?
Tamar Barbash [00:14:26]:
I mean, it would depend on, like, what they were feeling guilty about and why. But I think I'm gonna take a leap here and say a lot of times it has to do with the kids. And so, like, my my advice on that is just kids take all their cues from adults always. And so as much as we behave like everything's okay and this is just a new chapter and we're gonna be fine, Things are going to be fine. And the more they see us having anxiety and the more they see us uncomfortable or or struggling to to take the next step, like, the more they're going to internalize that anxiety. So you know? And and I think, again, I think a lot of the guilt and comes from these I call them in my practice limiting beliefs. Like, these ideas that we come to the table with that hold us back from being able to move forward. Right? Right? Like, some people just really strongly believe that a home should have two parents, and and it's really hard to move past that sort of, you know, that belief that you hold dearly internally to to calm the dissonance in your head about the fact that your children aren't going to have that.
Tamar Barbash [00:15:38]:
But the truth of the matter is kids don't need that. And and the bigger point is that if the home with two parents is toxic, if the parents are not treating each other kindly, if they talk to each other in ways that are unacceptable, if you have you know, any if there's a lot of yelling, if there's fighting, if there's if there's, like, cold war kind of behavior where there's just the silent treatment all the time, like, all of those are things that your kids are picking up on and learning, and it's determining how they're going to go into their relationships when they start dating and they start having serious relationships. And and there's there can be to me, there's no way to argue that that's better than leaving and showing them what it looks like to stand up for oneself, showing them what it looks like to be strong independently, showing them what it looks like to start over. And there's just there's so much opportunity for what we can show our kids when we get divorced that is positive and inspiring. And and I think just to, like, really explicitly answer your question, I think the only thing you can do is take one step at a time, whatever that one small step is, and that's how you get all the way down the road. And so, yeah, when you're in the thick of it, it is impossible to envision that it's going to look a lot better somewhere down the road. But anyone who's ever dealt with any kind of grief, you know, I I can describe you know, my mother died, and and it's like you're never you feel like you're never gonna get better. It's never gonna you're never gonna be able to wake up in the morning and not feel that boulder on your chest, and then some at some point, you do.
Tamar Barbash [00:17:09]:
And so anyone who's been through any kind of grief knows that as you continue working through it and taking one step at a time, you the healing comes. And so you just have to trust the process and also hopefully be talking to somebody who can help you through it, be surrounding yourself with supportive family and friends and, you know, an an financial adviser who can help you make the best decisions for you financially. I mean, I always say I'm part of a team. Like, as a coach, I I I'm there for my clients emotionally, but, you know, having a good attorney, having a good financial, you know, CDFA, having friends, having family who are there to support you, like, you need a whole team. And, you know, and my, you know, my whole thing is, like, I would love to see the divorce landscape change to a point where, like, it doesn't feel like the kind of thing where you need a whole team where it's just sort of, like, a transition in life, like, getting a new job, and and you just, you know, you leave one and you and you move forward, and it's not so traumatic. But right now, for the way it's sort of set up in our society, it is difficult. And so having a team of people who are there to support you is super important.
Leah Hadley [00:18:12]:
That's such a good point. And I think a lot of times people are unclear on how that divorce coach role fits in with the team. I wonder if you could talk a little bit more about that.
Tamar Barbash [00:18:24]:
Yeah. I mean, I think part of it is, like, you have these lawyers who bill, you know, exorbitant amounts per hour. Right? And you have clients who call their attorneys when they're frustrated with their exes and just start, you know maybe they start off with a legal question. And then on the clock, they're just kinda going on about the things that are frustrating, and he's, you know, he's such a jerk, or she's so she's so controlling, or I don't know what to do, and how do and and I'm so frustrated. And and you have an attorney who's sitting there thinking, like, this is really outside of my jurisdiction. You know? But, I mean, I'll I'll give the best advice I can. But so I the whole idea of a divorce coach is is for your attorney in that situation to be able to say, like, let me refer you to someone who actually, you know, is is trained to help you kind of battle these kinds of moments and and at a much more reasonable rate than what your attorney's gonna charge you for an hour. And, you know, and that that's what it is.
Tamar Barbash [00:19:23]:
I always say, don't give financially. Don't give legal advice. Right? But I do I can help you with the reframing and the the, encouragement to take you know, when I said, like, take one step at a time, I can help you figure out what those steps are and how you you get from point a to point b. And that's what I always say. Like, my goal is to get you from point a to point b because people also ask how I'm different from a therapist. And and the answer there is that, like, yes. There's some digging into, like, what kind of behaviors you're you you tend to to engage in and what your patterns are. But, really, a lot of it is just like, let's come up with an action plan.
Tamar Barbash [00:19:57]:
How are we getting you from point a to point b? How are we getting you unstuck so so that you're not, like, just on this hamster wheel going round and round?
Leah Hadley [00:20:06]:
So, so, so important. Tamar, I really appreciate you taking the time to share your insights with us today. Where can people learn more about you and your services?
Tamar Barbash [00:20:16]:
So you can find me on my website. My practice is called New Beginnings. So all of my information starts with n b as in new beginnings. So my website is nbdivorcecoaching.com. On the website, you can click to, schedule a twenty minute free discovery call if you're interested in just learning a little bit more about, what I do as a coach and how I can help you at your specific situation, please do sign up for that free consultation. And then I'm on Instagram at n b divorce coaching as well.
Leah Hadley [00:20:46]:
Terrific. We will be sure to include that information in the show notes.
Tamar Barbash [00:20:49]:
Thank you so much.
Leah Hadley [00:20:50]:
Absolutely. So you all will have access to the resources that Tamar is offering. She is obviously such a wonderful resource herself. Thank you again for joining us. Thank you so much for having me. Oh, you're so welcome.
Leah Hadley [00:21:05]:
And for our audience, thank you for listening. We'll see you next week. Bye.
Leah Hadley [00:21:09]:
Thank you for joining me on Intentional Divorce Insights. It's a privilege to share this time with you. I hope each episode offers valuable guidance to navigate your journey. If you find our content helpful, please leave a review to help others discover the benefits of intentional decision making in divorce. Until next time, take care and continue to embrace your path with intention.
