Leah Hadley [00:00:01]:
Welcome to Intentional Divorce Insights. I'm Leah Hadley, certified divorce financial analyst, accredited financial counselor, and the founder of Intentional Divorce Solutions. I'll be your guide through the complexities of divorce, finance, and emotional wellness. Join me as we uncover practical tips and empowering insights to help you navigate your divorce with clarity and intention. Hi there, and welcome back to intentional divorce insights. I am so happy that you are here, and I am thrilled to introduce our guests today based in Dallas, Texas and serving clients across the US. Julia Hoffman specializes in transforming the stigma around divorce into a blueprint for family success. With a masters of marriage and family therapy and training in Martha Beck's coaching program, Julia expertly navigates divorce and co parenting issues, informed by both her professional and personal experience as a child of divorce and a co parent herself.
Leah Hadley [00:01:00]:
Together with her wife, Christie, Julia happily co parents 3 daughters, 6, 10a half, and 14, alongside their dad and bonus mom. Julia gained her 4th oldest daughter when she adopted Christie's bio daughter, Dylan, a sophomore in college. Plus 4 dogs, plus her garden, which feels like another child as well. Julia's mission is to remove the shame of divorce and redefine what it means to be a family by providing effective strategies for divorce, co parenting, and LBGTQ related challenges. Thank you for being here, Julia. It was my absolute pleasure to have you.
Julia Hoffman [00:01:38]:
Thanks, Leah, for having me. Yeah. We're getting into to that gardening phase where it's a little less fun as Dallas gets hotter and hotter.
Leah Hadley [00:01:47]:
But I believe it not. Even here in the Cleveland area, it's really hot right now, which is totally unusual.
Julia Hoffman [00:01:53]:
Yeah. Yeah. Everywhere. So thanks so much for having me.
Leah Hadley [00:01:57]:
Oh, it is my pleasure. And when I was reading your bio, one of the things that I read was that you happily co parent, which is just not a term that a lot of people use, and I would love to hear more about what that means to you.
Julia Hoffman [00:02:11]:
Sure. Means a couple different things. I'm happy for my children, for all 4 of our children. So my kids' dad, who I never I never say x because I just really don't like that term. So my kid's dad is remarried. So my wife and I parent with, the girl's dad and his wife. So we're all 4 parents, and that's how I look at it. I look at it really, really evenly.
Julia Hoffman [00:02:43]:
It doesn't, like, bio or not. It doesn't really matter to me because we all put in the same amount of energy. So I'm happy for our kids that they get to see that. That they get to see their parents sitting together at their volleyball games and their 8th grade graduation, and that we really enjoy parenting together. It doesn't mean we're best friends outside of parenting, and I actually think that's good. That's a good thing. That works better. And then I happily co parent because I get a break.
Leah Hadley [00:03:20]:
Right.
Julia Hoffman [00:03:21]:
I get a I get breaks, and, I get time just with, you know, just with Christy and I. I get to nap. I love a nap. Should probably put that in my bio. I love a good nap. And I don't think that divorced parents, the the the shame and the guilt is so strong. I don't think that divorced parents are comfortable talking about that as a plus because you get a break because you're not with your children.
Leah Hadley [00:03:54]:
Right.
Julia Hoffman [00:03:54]:
Especially mothers, and you're a mother, know that it's this being excited to not or having to be okay to not be with your children just sounds like a, you know, mortal sin. But it makes me a better mother.
Leah Hadley [00:04:10]:
It absolutely does for me too. And I will say it's really important for my relationship as well. As you mentioned, you have time with Christie. I've been remarried now for several years, and, you know, that's the time that we have together to really work on our own relationship, which is so critical when, you know, parenting teenagers. So, so I I absolutely agree with you, Julia. It's it makes a big difference.
Julia Hoffman [00:04:36]:
Do you feel more refreshed when they
Leah Hadley [00:04:38]:
I do.
Julia Hoffman [00:04:39]:
Yeah. You notice a difference from before when you were what I call, like, a 100% parenting.
Leah Hadley [00:04:45]:
Oh, yeah. Absolutely. And it gives me time for my career as well. You know, I run 2 businesses that I am very passionate about, and I
Julia Hoffman [00:04:54]:
want to have time to do those things. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Provides that.
Leah Hadley [00:05:00]:
Yeah. So in your experience, what are some of the biggest misconceptions that society has about co parenting?
Julia Hoffman [00:05:08]:
That, that that we just talked about. Mhmm. That, it has to be that it's well, one, that it's negative. That it has to be negative. Just so in the culture, you know, in our zeitgeist that it has to be contentious, and people have to pick sides. You know, in the the extended family and friends, everybody has to pick sides. It does not have to be like that. I have worked with many clients.
Julia Hoffman [00:05:44]:
Well, I actually I got into focusing on co parenting because I was working with women coming out later in life. You know, we we kinda get into, the the work that we know the best. And so using my marriage and family background, I I've started working with those women, and it was really amazing, fascinating. But the part that I loved the most and felt most rewarding and I thought made the biggest difference was helping the woman and her husband navigate the ending of their marriage, had a parent together, and that was really the most painful part for her. You know? It was the most painful part, and, I felt like that is and it was the most painful part for me too because I had the same situation. So I really, really wanted to support to support that because it's it was the most painful part, but also the most rewarding to be on this side now. So I think that people just they don't understand that it can be a good thing, that children are not this is my I'm on this kick right now. Divorce does not hurt children, Leah.
Julia Hoffman [00:07:07]:
Divorce does not hurt children. Parental conflict hurts children. Like, just the divorce itself, it's it it contributes to conflict, obviously. Sure. But it's not the thing that is going to, automatically damage your children. I don't think parents know that they have some control over that based on their their choices.
Leah Hadley [00:07:32]:
It's such a good point, and I always share with people about my own co parenting experience because the 1st year was not pretty. And there was just a moment in time, where my ex husband and I came together and it was like, this isn't working for anybody. Like, we need to figure this out as adults. And it was such an important moment for us because, otherwise, we would have continued the way we were going, and it wasn't it wasn't good for the kids. It wasn't good for us. It it didn't have to be that way. You're exactly right.
Julia Hoffman [00:08:03]:
Mhmm. Mhmm. What was the, can I ask, what was the point where you said this isn't working for us? Like, did you both get there at the same time? Was somebody
Leah Hadley [00:08:15]:
seem to have gotten there at the same time. Yeah. Yeah. It's just the tension and, you know, even my kids were really young at the time. My youngest was still a toddler, and he used to scream when he would go back and forth between our homes. And it didn't matter which way he was going. He just didn't like the change. Yeah.
Leah Hadley [00:08:31]:
And, so there was so much tension in every time we would, you know, have a a a switch with the kids. And it was just like I don't know. It was just heartbreaking. You know? And it was just we couldn't keep going like that.
Julia Hoffman [00:08:45]:
Mhmm. Yeah. It is heartbreaking. It is heartbreaking. You may have done this. One tip I like to give some constructive actual, you know, tips is it helps to did you would you, would you pick up your kiddo, like the toddler, from their dad's house, or would you drop off? Or did it change?
Leah Hadley [00:09:10]:
He was always responsible for transportation. So he would drop them off at my house.
Julia Hoffman [00:09:16]:
Okay. Yeah. So and that works for some people. For for us and what I tell people is bringing oh, no. He would drop off. That's right. Bringing the child to their home as opposed to picking them up from their home and taking them back to your home. There's, yeah, there's something that's more gentle about, you know, delivering them and, you know, walking them in and bringing them home.
Julia Hoffman [00:09:46]:
They're not they're not waiting for you to pick them up. They don't have to have this dramatic exit from their home. It can help. It can help. But it's hard.
Leah Hadley [00:09:58]:
That is good advice that I could've used, like, 10 years ago.
Julia Hoffman [00:10:03]:
Yeah. Yeah. I have 2 ages now. Me too. My youngest, Leah, when we separated was 14 months. Okay. It was brutal. Yeah.
Julia Hoffman [00:10:15]:
It was brutal. So yeah. Yeah. Like to share we we both like to share from our trials. Right?
Leah Hadley [00:10:23]:
Right. Right. Absolutely. I would rather share and have other people avoid it, than have to witness them going through the same thing that I went through.
Julia Hoffman [00:10:32]:
Yeah. Yeah. That's right. That's right.
Leah Hadley [00:10:34]:
So speaking of which, do you have any big regrets, when it comes to your divorce or co parenting experience?
Julia Hoffman [00:10:44]:
Yes. Yes. I wish that I had been more protective of my story. I wish that I had been mindful of how I talked about it, And the energy that I gave to each person when I would talk about it is I was so focused on having them not think that I was a monster, having them, not think that the kids weren't gonna be okay. You know, I was, like, trying to manage all these people and feelings, and, and mine was you know, I had come out, and I had I had met my I had met my now wife. This is how I realized I was gay. You know, it was really I mean, they're all really complicated, but it was really, really complicated. So I wish that I could have had the vision to, like I don't have to 1, I don't have to throw myself under the bus, and, and I don't have to spend this energy.
Julia Hoffman [00:11:49]:
I don't have the energy to spend
Leah Hadley [00:11:51]:
Yeah.
Julia Hoffman [00:11:52]:
Having all these conversations. I only had energy for my children and their dad, because there were still a lot of things that the 2 of us needed to, you know, figure out. So that that would be I would do that differently, and I try to help people I try to help people with that now. Like
Leah Hadley [00:12:11]:
Fantastic.
Julia Hoffman [00:12:13]:
Shrink your circle. You know? Really
Leah Hadley [00:12:15]:
Yeah. We had a coach, Meg Blockman, come on and talk all about reframing your story and making it, Yeah. It was it was a really good episode, and I'll include a link in the show notes below. But she just had some really simple practical tips, and I think that's that's a struggle for a lot of people that that people aren't even necessarily conscious of.
Julia Hoffman [00:12:37]:
Exactly. Because it's such a it's you're in the eye of the storm, so you're not thinking about it.
Leah Hadley [00:12:44]:
Right.
Julia Hoffman [00:12:46]:
And I wanted to be the one to tell my I wanted to be the one to tell people. And so I, you know, spread it far and wide. But I what I'm not don't regret is how we told our well, no. I do that is second regret. Last thing. The second regret. I regret that I did not listen to my gut about how to tell our children. I listened to the professional, and I knew that that was not the right way for our children.
Julia Hoffman [00:13:18]:
Because she said, you have to be so direct. There can be no misconception for them. They have to know that this is happening, know you're getting divorced. So we were to give them a snack because you can't have an emotional breakdown when you're having a snack. To which I thought, yes, you can because I've done it several times. I can break down and eat some cereal very fine. You know? And then tell them just directly, we are getting divorced. You know, just no bleeding into it or anything.
Leah Hadley [00:13:53]:
Oh, wow.
Julia Hoffman [00:13:54]:
Well, the treat that we gave them was rainbow sherbet ice cream because that was their favorite. And, their dad was the one that actually said, mom and I are getting divorced. And the first thing I heard was my 7 year old let out this, you know, the most painful cry, wail I've ever heard. And then, my 4 year old, about 15 seconds after he said that, she threw up. Oh gosh. She just she just threw up. I mean, right at the table. You know? To which now she loves that story.
Julia Hoffman [00:14:29]:
Because later I mean, later that day, we told them I was gay because it came up because of their questions. But she loves that story and she says, when my mom told me she was gay, I threw up rainbows. So So that's her little funny in it. She loves telling that story. But, if I had to do it again, we would have eased them into it. We have big conversations all the time. They're used to having, like, deep conversations. You know, I don't think we needed to, like, hit them with it.
Julia Hoffman [00:15:02]:
And so I try to guide parents in. You know your child best. So get some professional advice, and at the end of the day, you know your child best. You go with what you think is best for your child.
Leah Hadley [00:15:15]:
So important. So, so, so important. And it also varies so widely by age and by dynamic between the children and, you know, all of the different things, impact what what's the right way to approach it for your family. So Okay. I I appreciate you sharing that because that's really important. Yeah.
Julia Hoffman [00:15:34]:
Yeah.
Leah Hadley [00:15:34]:
What advice do you have for parents who are struggling to co parent amicably with a high conflict ex partner?
Julia Hoffman [00:15:42]:
So my my belief and what I've seen is it it really it really just takes one parent to make pretty big difference. Because I hear I do hear that a lot. My my ex will not be on board, or I don't think their mother will be on board, or their father will be on board. I I was actually surprised. I actually get more calls from dads
Leah Hadley [00:16:11]:
Okay. Than
Julia Hoffman [00:16:12]:
I do from moms, just to be I mean, just to use, you know, dad mom language. But, and, you know, it's so the the if one parent is hurting more, one parent is, there's more conflict, it's it's like a it's it's just a balance. If I'm working with both of them, it's just a balance to help the other parent not take it as, you know I mean, obviously, it feels like a personal attack. But to just let help them see they're hurting. They're hurting. Like and the hurt comes out or they're scared, and it comes out as anger, and it comes out as all these other things. But if you cannot, you know, internalize it and you cannot play into it, it's gonna the hurt is gonna dissipate. And things hopefully will smooth over.
Julia Hoffman [00:17:12]:
Now I'm not talking about someone. I'm not talking about, like, you know, I know we overuse the word, but a classic narcissist or certainly not talking about someone that's abusive. I'm just talking about, like, one parent is really it's usually the parent that, was not expecting the divorce or is more resistant and feels like, you know, the victim. So Okay. Try to help balance it. But I I really think you just need one to make a pretty big difference in the dynamic.
Leah Hadley [00:17:45]:
That's really interesting. And I think a lot of people
Julia Hoffman [00:17:48]:
Yeah. Is that your is that your experience that, there's hope if, you know, if one is really upset, there's hope for them still if the other is a little more grounded?
Leah Hadley [00:18:03]:
I would say yes. Certainly, having one more grounded is makes a huge difference. For a lot of what we see in our practice, people just need time. You know? And so a lot of times people are sort of rushing things and expecting somebody to be in a place that they're not, especially when somebody, is surprised by the divorce. You know, that other person has had so much time to come to that conclusion and already feel the feelings that they're gonna have about it. Whereas that that person who's surprised by it, it's just it's completely new. It's a shock. Right? Yes.
Leah Hadley [00:18:41]:
And there's a lot of feelings that have to take place and a lot of healing that has to happen, and it just doesn't happen overnight. And I think a lot of times that other person is just so frustrated by the fact that that there is this ongoing emotional issues, but it's just a lot of times seriously just a timing issue, Yeah. And that it kinda works itself out over time.
Julia Hoffman [00:19:04]:
Yeah. That's a good point. And to have it not snowball for the parent to understand that it's hold on. I'm having a 45 year old moment. Hold on. I'm gonna get it back, Leah. I'm gonna get it back. No.
Julia Hoffman [00:19:28]:
I think here. Go on. It'll come back to me with the second you ask me this next question, what my what the point was. Okay.
Leah Hadley [00:19:37]:
What has been a funny moment co parenting?
Julia Hoffman [00:19:40]:
Oh, gosh. Okay. Well, this is, yeah, co parenting, but this is more about my, the kids bonus mom. So, technically, my ex husband's wife. So we the 2 of us have the most flexible schedule, work schedule. So we usually go to the school events and things together. And in the beginning, it was that we were at a new school. We went from private to to public school, and we're at this new school.
Julia Hoffman [00:20:11]:
And, I'm I'm kinda like introducing us or introducing, you know, her to someone if I'd already met them. And I'd say, I'd say this is Erin, the girl's bonus mom. But then I realized they wouldn't know if I because I think most people knew that I was a lesbian because it's Texas, and there's not that many of us in, you know, these public schools and stuff. So I thought, how are they not gonna think we're married? So I would say, this is Erin, the girl's bonus mom. We're not we're not married. She's married to their dad. Right? And I would do that. If you're just listening, I'm, like, you know, putting my hands away.
Julia Hoffman [00:20:50]:
Like, we're not married. So finally, after doing that so many times, she turned to me in the middle of it and said, I'm sorry to get offended by this. I'm sorry to get offended. Like like, you know, that that that you're making this big point that, no. We are not together. But, which oh my, I didn't even think about it. I just anyway, it was just so it was like the first time we sort of, like, laughed about about that. And we've well, I mean, we've laughed about a lot of we've laughed about a lot of things.
Julia Hoffman [00:21:21]:
Yeah. Yeah. So That's fantastic. Complicated. We're kind of a complicated family. So there's, there's often something some misunderstanding with somebody else that comes up and it just makes us chuckle.
Leah Hadley [00:21:36]:
That's great.
Julia Hoffman [00:21:37]:
Yeah.
Leah Hadley [00:21:38]:
So, Julia, where can people find out more about you and how can they get in touch with you?
Julia Hoffman [00:21:43]:
Yeah. So it's very easy. It's my website, julia hoffmancoaching.com. Hoffman with 2 f's. And all my information is there. September, it's I mean, I feel like it's won't be that far away. September 20th to 22nd, I'm doing a virtual summit to help people be like a 3 day summit to help people that are in the process of divorce and wanna do some work on it, some healing, and then learn some practical things.
Leah Hadley [00:22:21]:
Fantastic.
Julia Hoffman [00:22:22]:
And then there's a lot of other detail about, the 1 on 1 coaching that I do, on there on my website.
Leah Hadley [00:22:29]:
Wonderful. Yeah. And you also have a free gift for our audience. Can you tell us about that?
Julia Hoffman [00:22:35]:
Yeah. So it's a quiz where I, the sort of like the 5 categories that I think people really need support with that they have a hard time with. You know, something just letting go of the marriage. I think people get really stuck. Oh, that's see, I knew it would come back to me. I knew it would come back to me. I knew it would come back to me. People get stuck because they want to be friends.
Julia Hoffman [00:23:08]:
Right? They want it to wanted to be friends. They want it to work, but there's no process or help, I think, in going from being married to being co parents. It you can't be friends in that you can't be friends right away because you're establishing boundaries and you're setting all these new norms. But then that other person that your, you know, your former spouse, setting those boundaries makes them seem really cold. You know, I I don't know if you hear that that this a lot.
Leah Hadley [00:23:44]:
Oh, yeah.
Julia Hoffman [00:23:44]:
Say, I don't even know this person. I don't even know who they are. They're they're not like, it's like they're a totally different person. Well, it's because it's hard to go from being married one day to being in a completely different kind of relationship. It's like you have to forget all of that stuff and cut it all out and only focus on the parenting thing. Well, that's really hard to do. That's really hard to do. So Absolutely.
Julia Hoffman [00:24:16]:
Even just educating people that it's okay to have this period of time. It's normal where you're you're you're kind of figuring it out. And if you can do that and set the boundaries, you're much more likely to have a friendly relationship in the in the future. So anyway, but it's my best advice for people. They answer some, questions. Obviously, totally, you know, confidential. And then they get a result of something I think that they need to work on. And I'm pretty direct, so people can sort of take it or leave it, but I give some pretty straight advice.
Julia Hoffman [00:24:53]:
Yeah.
Leah Hadley [00:24:54]:
Well, that sounds like a very all can take advantage of that. Julia, thank you so much.
Julia Hoffman [00:25:03]:
Take it, Leah, and tell me if it's if it was if it worked for you, if it was the right Oh, no. Okay. For something good to hear. Although, you're a pro now. You've been doing it long enough. You're a pro. Yeah.
Leah Hadley [00:25:16]:
We do the best we can one day at a time. Right. It's not the co parenting that's the problem. The kids throw us for a loop all the time.
Julia Hoffman [00:25:24]:
It's the teenage. It's the teenager. Yeah. Yeah. I I hear you. I hear you on that. So yeah. Well, thank you.
Leah Hadley [00:25:32]:
Oh, you're very welcome. I really appreciate your time, and spending just this time to give us your thoughts and wisdom. It was really helpful for for me to hear as a co parent some of your stories and, you know, it's nice to know that you're not alone. And so, I appreciate your willingness to share even your personal stories. This is our last episode of the season, so we will be back in about a month or so, with season 2. But thank you all for joining us over this last season. We'll be replaying some of the episodes so you can enjoy some of the the favorites that people have shared with us, and we'll see you back in, like, a month or so. Thank you for joining me on Intentional Divorce Insights.
Leah Hadley [00:26:17]:
It's a privilege to share this time with you. I hope each episode offers valuable guidance to navigate your journey. If you find our content helpful, please leave a review to help others discover the benefits of intentional decision making in divorce. Until next time, take care and continue to embrace your path with intention.
