Leah Hadley [00:00:01]:
Welcome to Intentional Divorce Insights. I'm Leah Hadley, certified divorce financial analyst, accredited financial counselor, and the founder of Intentional Divorce Solutions. I'll be your guide through the complexities of divorce, finance, and emotional wellness. Join me as we uncover practical tips and empowering insights to help you navigate your divorce with clarity and intention. Welcome back to intentional divorce insights. I am so happy that you are here, and I am thrilled to welcome our guest this morning. Meg Gluckman is a divorce and co parenting coaching specialized in helping individual parents make decisions, feel more confident, and be more at ease navigating divorce, life after divorce, and all famous co parent. She lives and co parents her 2 kiddos in an awesome community just outside of Seattle.
Leah Hadley [00:00:53]:
Thank you so much for being here with us, Meg.
Meg Gluckman [00:00:55]:
Oh, thank you for having me on. This is super fun.
Leah Hadley [00:00:59]:
Awesome. So we are talking about an important topic today, and that is the divorce story that we tell. And I'm curious, Meg, what inspired you to want to talk about this topic?
Meg Gluckman [00:01:12]:
You know, it's something that comes up with every single one of my clients, and so it's something we work on a lot. Whether they're at the beginning of their divorce, whether they're stuck somewhere in the middle, the turbulent times, or whether they're even post divorce and they're still kind of carrying their divorce with them and struggling to kind of, like, let it be in the past. We talk about what is the story that we want to have about our divorce. Yeah. And I think about it in 3 different ways. I think about the personal story that we tell ourselves about our divorce. The story we tell our kids, if if you have kids if folks have kids. And then the story that we tell our community.
Meg Gluckman [00:01:59]:
That's all the friends and family, you know, the the other parents at the soccer games, the teachers, you know, who who we tell.
Leah Hadley [00:02:10]:
So do we have control over what other people think about our divorce?
Meg Gluckman [00:02:15]:
That's a oh, that's a good question. Yes and no. Right? I think, of course, we can never control everything that anybody else thinks about our divorce, but we have so much space to plant the seed or to give them the story that that we want them to have about our divorce. And we're gonna do it consciously or unconsciously. We're either going to just kind of vent about how things are going and give a story that isn't really necessarily thought out. Or we can intentionally decide how we want to talk about the divorce, the the restructuring of our family. And when we plant that seed, it's it's interesting, but mostly folks wanna run with it. They wanna they want to take what we want to believe and reinforce that.
Meg Gluckman [00:03:17]:
And when we give them a story that works, it'll circle back to us. It'll be the story that they share, with other folks in our community. It'll be the story that they share with our kids. And, yeah. It makes a huge difference what that story is. And I also like to say, like, we're talking about story. I use the word story a lot. And sometimes we think about, like, well, story's made up.
Meg Gluckman [00:03:44]:
It's it's not facts. And what I like to say is, actually as humans we always communicate in stories. That's just kind of how what we do. So it's not that we're telling something that's untrue, or isn't factual. It's that we're choosing which facts we're focusing on, which which parts of that truth that we're sharing with folks.
Leah Hadley [00:04:10]:
I appreciate that clarification because I'm guessing that a lot of people heard that word story and kind of thought that. Is there an example that you could give of a story that you've helped one of your clients to create?
Meg Gluckman [00:04:21]:
Oh, yeah. Yeah. So let me start with the story that they told their kids. Right? So this is this is often something that we work through and I imagine in your work too, you are often getting folks at this point where, like, oh, how am I gonna tell the kids? And as a financial advisor, it might not necessarily be, like, well, might not be the toolkit that you have to offer them, but I'm sure you give them a lot of pointers. I so I helped one client, and we've I've actually done this with multiple clients. And the story that I give them as the base, and then they can adapt it however feels good to them, is to be able to say to the kids, you know, mom and dad or mom and mom or dad and dad weren't able to love each other like a husband and wife or wife and wife or dad and dad are supposed to love each other. And that's the reason that we're getting divorced. And we're sad, and we're sorry this is happening to you, and we're gonna be okay.
Meg Gluckman [00:05:35]:
And we're always going to be your parents. I'm generally always working with parents, so that's me. We're always going to be your parents, and we love you. And we're gonna work on forming a a 2 home family now. And the simplicity of it, right, is useful whether you're talking to a 4 year old or whether you're talking to a 14 year old. Right? The 14 year old might come back with many more questions. Not necessarily, I guess. We all know those, those 4 year olds have a lot of questions, but different kinds of questions.
Meg Gluckman [00:06:13]:
And what I recommend is, like, you just stick to your story. Right? Alright. I hear that you have more questions. The truth is, mom and dad weren't able to love each other the way a husband and wife are supposed to love each other. And that's why we're getting divorced. And I know you're upset, and I'm sorry. Right? And we just keep reinforcing that story. And what we're giving them is we're giving them a foundation.
Meg Gluckman [00:06:41]:
Like, they're looking for something solid in this very changing turbulent time. And by reinforcing the same story and not really changing it, we're giving that to them. We're giving them that base.
Leah Hadley [00:06:58]:
Yeah. I really appreciate the simplicity of it because it's something that people can really confidently deliver because there's just there's no complexity. Like, it's just something that you can kind of prepare yourself for and, have that conversation. But why, Meg, is it so important to give our kids a divorce story?
Meg Gluckman [00:07:18]:
Yeah. Because they're gonna make one up no matter what.
Leah Hadley [00:07:23]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Meg Gluckman [00:07:25]:
Right? And they're gonna take our reactions. They're gonna take whatever the temperature has been like in the house up to this point. They're they're gonna make up a story about why this is happening. And as child development specialists often talk about, they most often will go to making it something about them. Right? They'll they'll make it that somehow they were part of the cause of this divorce. And we want to be very clear that this was a mom and dad, mom and mom parent decision, and it's because of what was going on between the 2 of us in our relationship as spouses. Excuse me, not in our parenting relationship. That's, like, so important.
Meg Gluckman [00:08:17]:
And to remember too that kids don't really get our spouse relationship. That's that's not what they think in. They think in our parenting relationship. Right? So they're gonna make a story up that's about parenting, when really it is about our spousal relationship. So we want to give them a story that is simple, that they can repeat to themselves, and that they can tell other people because we know they will tell other people. They're going to tell their little friends. They're gonna tell their teacher. They're gonna tell their, you know, baseball coach.
Meg Gluckman [00:08:54]:
Whatever. Right? And we make it simple so that they can explain it too.
Leah Hadley [00:09:00]:
So do co parents need to agree on the story?
Meg Gluckman [00:09:04]:
Good question. Of course, it would be awesome if they did. It would be so awesome. And but we don't always have that option. What it really takes is 1 parent modeling that story. Right? I think more often than not, when it's simply modeled, simply delivered, even if the co parents are not on good communication terms. If they start hearing or, you know, maybe one parent shares over email, this is the story I'm gonna tell Bobby, you know, about why we're getting separated. It's a no blame story.
Meg Gluckman [00:09:51]:
Right? And there's something very reassuring about that. So hopefully both co parents can take take it on. But even if they can't, it is beneficial to the kids to hear it from one parent. Right? Having having that seed planted is beneficial even if it's not coming from both places.
Leah Hadley [00:10:12]:
You know what else I love about the simplicity of it is it's so repeatable. Because I was just thinking to myself, you know, when my ex husband and I had the conversation with our children, we actually did a really good job with that conversation. We we prepared for it. We sat them down together. We had the conversation. But everything after that, like, for the 1st year, we did not have any preparation for whatsoever. And it was it was kind of a well, it was a very rough 1st year after divorce, so we've since have now a very nice co parenting relationship, which is awesome. But I'm just thinking if we had a simple story like that, then we could have repeated it over the course of that next year, which would have just kept things so simple for us.
Meg Gluckman [00:10:54]:
Mhmm. Mhmm. It I will say it does take a parent deciding that they are not going to blame the other person in the context of their communication with their child. Right? You can you can blame the other person for what's happening as you're talking to your therapist or as you're talking to your best friend and you are venting about how hard things are and where the other person did all this missteps. But it does take someone deciding, I am not gonna speak negatively about my other parent to the child. I'm going to do my best to help them have a positive, connected, loving relationship with the other parent because that's what's in the best interest of the child. Right? And sometimes at the beginning of our divorce or
Leah Hadley [00:11:51]:
the story could be the same whether you're talking to toddlers or you're talking to teenagers, but is there anything that you change about how you deliver to toddlers versus teenagers?
Meg Gluckman [00:12:02]:
So I would stick exactly to what I just gave you as the example for the toddlers, and I would just keep repeating it and repeating it and repeating it. Right? For the teenagers, oftentimes, they're looking for who to blame. They're looking for what went wrong, or maybe they've heard something as well in in conflict or just somehow through the grapevine. And just coming back to, this is really a decision between mom and dad, And I'm hearing, you know, that maybe you wanna figure out who's to blame, but in the end, it really just comes down to that we weren't able to love each other the way a married couple is supposed to love each other, and that's why we're getting divorced. And it's important for you to know that this does not change either of our relationship with you. And it's okay if you're upset. And like, let's talk about those feelings. Like, let's you don't wanna have to go between 2 houses, Right? And then so then the story starts really shifting back to, they don't really need to dive into the why behind the divorce.
Meg Gluckman [00:13:18]:
Right? But they're upset about the outcomes. They're upset that they're gonna have to go between 2 schools or that they're not gonna cease one parent all the time or that it's really gonna change up their routine with how they can see their friends. Like, we shift it back to what it really is, which is like how it affects their life.
Leah Hadley [00:13:38]:
Right. Right?
Meg Gluckman [00:13:39]:
Yeah. So sometimes we think, oh, they're asking these hard questions like, you know, did did mom have an affair? I need to answer them and be truthful. And the reality is you don't. Like, you don't on that. That is an adult issue. That is an adult conversation. That is between the two parents. What you need to focus on is, like, what they need.
Meg Gluckman [00:14:03]:
You know? Do they need mending in a relationship? Do they need help navigating this change of, you know, their life routines? That's what they need.
Leah Hadley [00:14:15]:
That's such a good point. And I think we often get lost in the emotion and our own emotions of it and miss that just very basic idea there.
Meg Gluckman [00:14:24]:
Yeah. Absolutely. And that's why it's so important that we have other spaces, whether it's a therapist or a coach or a a good friend, where we really can process all of that. Right? A mentor of mine, Karen Bonnell, talks about how we have the spouse mind and we have the co parenting mind. Right? Like and we during divorce, we're, like, shifting between these two brains. And when we're solidly in the co parenting mind and we're delivering this divorce story to our kids, we are thinking about what is in their best interest. What what will help them have the best possible relationship with both parents? That's my focus when I'm co in my co parenting mind. So I have to, like, take out my spouse mind and put it on the shelf.
Meg Gluckman [00:15:13]:
Right? And then I also need a lot of space where I can have that spouse mind on. That's, again, with a therapist or a coach or a best friend that I can, like, process all of that stuff. But they're just we're just starting to separate them, and it's an untangling process because while we were married, we had both brains simultaneously working all the time. And now we're separating them.
Leah Hadley [00:15:42]:
You know, I should have started with this, Meg, because I bet there are a lot of people who are listening right now who don't even know what a parenting coach is or that a parenting coach exists. Can you talk to us a little bit about how you got into this work and what a co parenting coach is?
Meg Gluckman [00:15:58]:
Yeah. Well, I came to this work because I'm a divorced mom as well and struggled with figuring out how to co parent, had a challenging divorce. I have 2 kids, and I wish, like, you were talking about the year after your divorce, or the year of your divorce, like, that I had had more support in going through that process as well. And I was coaching for quite a while, just helping folks in their life, in their relationships, in their businesses, and I just seem to be magnetically attracting clients who were going through their own divorces. It's like they could sniff me out. They knew they knew that I got what what they were going through. So what I do is I'm really supporting parents at any point through the divorce process around building their communication skills as co parents, having a safe space to, like, talk through decisions that they need to make that they probably don't need like, they don't need to use a lawyer's time to talk through them. They want to explore all these possible different scenarios.
Meg Gluckman [00:17:19]:
I work with folks on helping think through, like, what a parenting schedule might look like. What's that what's that gonna feel like? What's it gonna be like the first time that, you know, your kids are gone for 3 nights at a time when you haven't been apart from them for, you know, more than one night in 7 years. And, yeah. So just kind of a an extra guide through the divorce process and as we get into co parenting.
Leah Hadley [00:17:51]:
Fantastic. And you have a free download that's available on your website. Can you tell us about that?
Meg Gluckman [00:17:57]:
Yes. It's my favorite. It's 5 questions to help you prepare for any divorce or a co parenting meeting. What I find is that, these kind of meetings can be filled with a lot of fear and anxiety and worry about, like, oh my gosh. What are we gonna have to decide? What am I gonna commit to? What's the what are he, she going to say? We're really worried about what the other person might say in the meeting. And so I developed these questions and use them with my clients to help them kind of downshift and feel much more grounded going into any meeting. So whether it's with you to talk about finances, whether it's, going in with their attorney, or whether it's just meeting with their co parent to make some decisions. These are 5 questions that I have my clients go through each time, you know, each time they're gonna go into one of these meetings so that they can feel grounded and safe and really get the most out of the meetings.
Meg Gluckman [00:19:02]:
Because when we go into these meetings and we're full of anxiety and we're really worried about what might happen, we are not our most productive self. Right? We can't make decisions with the most evolved part of our brain. We're kind of acting from this, like, animal instinct fight or flight response. So we wanna be able to go in just much more grounded, much calmer so that we can really make the best decisions for ourselves and for our kids.
Leah Hadley [00:19:33]:
Excellent. So what is your website so they can check that out?
Meg Gluckman [00:19:36]:
Sure. It's just my name. It's meggluckman.com. And if you go I'm also on Instagram, so you can find it. Same handout over there as well. And that's just at Meg Gluckman. Yeah.
Leah Hadley [00:19:50]:
Fantastic. Thank you so much for being here with us today. Do you have any final words for our listeners?
Meg Gluckman [00:19:58]:
I hope that this has been helpful. Helpful. I hope that, like, thinking about how you can intentionally choose your story for your kids is helpful, and that you can extrapolate it and just think about how you want to intentionally choose your story for yourself. Like, the story that you tell yourself about your divorce is really, really important too. And it's a choice. We can we can really choose whether we paint ourselves in kind of a victim light or that this thing this horrible thing is happening to us, or if we are able to get to a place where, we can really see how strong we are, how resourceful we are, how, creative we are in figuring out this next phase of our life. So choose your stories intentionally. I love
Leah Hadley [00:20:51]:
it. Well, thank you so much again for being with us today. And thank you for listening, and we will see you next week. Thank you for joining me on Intentional Divorce Insights. It's a privilege to share this time with you. I hope each episode offers valuable guidance to navigate your journey. If you find our content helpful, please leave a review to help others discover the benefits of intentional decision making in divorce. Until next time, take care and continue to embrace your path with intention.
